Evidence of meeting #8 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mussell.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carla Ventin  Senior Vice-President, Government Relations, Food, Health & Consumer Products of Canada
Brian Innes  Executive Director, Soy Canada
Dennis Comeau  General Manager, Top Shelf Feeds Inc.
Cammy Lockwood  Owner-Operator, Lockwood Farms, As an Individual
Al Mussell  Research Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute, As an Individual
Jennifer Ronholm  Assistant Professor, Faculty of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, McGill University, As an Individual

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Innes, maybe I'll turn to you. You've already spoken a little bit about the problems that your sector is seeing with ports and with shipping containers. I think that echoes a lot of what we've heard. President Biden's man down in the United States who's looking at port problems has noticed similar issues.

In comparison with our air traffic system, the competition always knows what airplanes are in the sky and how long they're on the ground. It's very transparent, whereas with our shipping system, that's often treated as proprietary information. It's not very transparent. It affects ridings like mine where big shipping freighters and bulk carriers are out there six to eight weeks just idling away at an anchorage and nothing seems to be really going.

You've concentrated on the shipping container aspect of it, but does the federal government need to step in and revamp the entire system, similar to what was done with federal control over the aviation system, so that we have a wholesale...? You know where I'm going with this, just looking at everything.

4:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Soy Canada

Brian Innes

I certainly think that, when we look at the supply chain, we need to have a comprehensive view, because each supply chain has its own nuances. What I described on the container situation is because we're facing acute challenges. We believe in a competitive, business-driven market, but unfortunately it's not that in containers because of the consolidation that's happened.

It's not necessarily the case that it needs to be centrally planned, but we need to have the same sort of rules that apply to the rest of the Canadian business apply to the shipping lines that are holding us hostage.

When we look at the system, it needs to be broad, and I would look forward to those details around potential improvements going forward. To us, it's not evident that it needs to be centrally planned, but we're certainly seeing some constraints when there's no oversight of competitive practices.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor and Mr. Comeau.

We've come to the end of testimony for this panel of witnesses.

On behalf of the committee and all its members, I'd like to thank the witnesses for their testimony today and their leadership in agriculture.

Thank you very much.

Folks, don't go far; we're going to be turning over to the second panel momentarily.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Colleagues, we're going to get right back to it. Thank you to our technical team for the quick change of witnesses.

It's great to see our witnesses on the screen.

Today we have Cammy Lockwood, who is the owner-operator of Lockwood Farms. Welcome to you, Ms. Lockwood.

We also have Dr. Al Mussell, who is the research director at the Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute and no stranger to this committee. Mr. Mussell, it's great to see you.

We also have Jennifer Ronholm, who is an assistant professor at the faculty of agricultural and environmental sciences at McGill University.

We have five minutes for opening comments from each of our witnesses, so I'm going to start with Ms. Lockwood.

We go over to you for five minutes.

4:30 p.m.

Cammy Lockwood Owner-Operator, Lockwood Farms, As an Individual

Hello. My name is Cammy Lockwood. As said, I'm an owner-operator at Lockwood Farms here on Vancouver Island, on the traditional territories of the Hul'q'umi'num'-speaking people.

I am very blessed and honoured to be able to farm this land. My farm is quite small. We have about five acres. We farm vegetables on about two acres. We are also part of the quota supply-managed system. In 2015, we were awarded 3,000 units of quota for egg-laying hens. Since then, we've expanded to two flocks of 3,000 each, so that's about 6,000 laying hens on our farm in a free-range facility.

Our focus, right from the beginning of our farming career in 2010, was really on environmental sustainability and environmental impacts. We chose farming because we felt at that time that it was the most environmentally friendly way we could live. We've always truly believed that we need to be the change we want to see in the world, and we've managed to accomplish that throughout our careers.

What's interesting about our farm is that we feed insect larvae to our birds. We are the only commercial operation in Canada doing that on a commercial scale. It's definitely not without its challenges, in the supply chain and everywhere. It's a pioneering move, and we've felt the effects of that. Honestly, we have felt everything you are talking about. Supply chains, transportation, labour and even meat processing have affected our little five acres here.

When it comes to labour, we have tried so many different strategies. We have teamed up with WWOOF, the worldwide organic farm workers. Essentially, it's a labour trade program, where people choose to stay with us. We provide room and board, and a farming education and experience. They're typically people from developed nations around the world with which Canada has an agreement in place already. We've had many requests from people coming from underdeveloped countries, but, unfortunately, trying to get visas for them to come to Canada is not an option. It is a lot of work for us and something we are not capable of doing on our scale. It's very difficult reading a fair number of heartbreaking emails about their lives and how they want to make a change for the better and become part of Canadian society.

For labour, we've tried that. COVID shut down a lot of borders, at which time we tried employing predominantly local people. We were able to utilize the Canada summer jobs program to do that. Unfortunately, we found that on our scale of vegetable production, it was not a viable option. Essentially, without the Canada summer jobs program, we would have been in the red. We were able to skim through just inside the black. This year, we are hoping to work with local interns.

We have tried on several occasions to go through the temporary foreign worker program, but, again, it's very cost-prohibitive when we have to provide very high-level, rigorously tested housing. When we're working with the buildings we have on the property, it can be very challenging. We also have to show, through the LMIA, that we've tried with local people. We continually try with local people. There's also the cost of airfare. Again, with our small scale, it's difficult to know before they get here whether or not it's going to be an advantage to us.

Housing, of course, is another part of the temporary foreign worker program. In our area and the unit where we would be housing temporary foreign workers, we could recover about $600 a month from them, whereas, given our market here, we can easily rent out the same unit for $1,800 or $1,900 a month. It really draws into question the affordability for us, and it really brings in strong questions as to whether or not vegetable farming is worth our while.

We've also seen some severe challenges when it comes to our egg operation and production. Top Shelf Feeds is our feed supplier. They've been wonderful, always getting us feed throughout all the disruptions we've experienced. They have always been our first call when there is an emergency that hits, but we have seen a huge increase in the cost of feed that has really impacted our bottom line.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Ms. Lockwood, I don't mean to interrupt, but I have to, because we're at five minutes. I know that colleagues will want to engage with you.

We're going to go to Mr. Mussell, for five minutes, and then to Ms. Ronholm.

4:35 p.m.

Dr. Al Mussell Research Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute, As an Individual

Mr. Chair and honourable members, I'm honoured to appear before you this afternoon and provide my insights as a researcher with the Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute, an independent research institute focused on agriculture and food.

The COVID-19 pandemic brought important concerns regarding agri-food supply chains to light, but in fact, pressures on agri-food supply chains existed prior to this. Many of the gaps observed in the agri-food supply chain are highly tangible, relate to human and physical capacity, and are transactional in nature. Too few truck drivers, too few international shipping containers, insufficient commercial cooling capacity to handle pulses of cold chain inventories—each of these contains its own market dynamics, anticipated fluctuations and perceptions of risk, and also plays into social and economic megatrends relating to workforce capacity utilization and investment.

The sharp reduction in food service demand during the pandemic focused the consumer supply of food and demand for wholesale food with grocery retailers. Consumer prices were tightly monitored for gouging, but it was more difficult to monitor wholesale market power. This has intensified pressure for a grocery retail code of conduct. It stands to reason that retailer market power directed at food processors would eventually spill over into farm market products, with a great fragmentation of effect across farm products.

In many cases, food-processing plants operate at large scale to offer efficiency and low unit cost. However, this creates a large impact on farm product markets if these are suddenly shuttered. The closure of small plants would be much less disruptive, with farm product more easily redirected. However, small plants are no panacea and come with very significant loss of efficiencies and difficulties with regulation and marketing. The framework to broadly assess this trade-off between cost efficiency and resilience does not easily present itself.

More generally, governments do not have any kind of dashboard from which to monitor supply chains, track performance, and detect and analyze system bottlenecks in real time. This has been left to markets and profit-motivated adjustments in operations and investments, to our great benefit. However, in the face of stark sudden adjustments from climate extremes, disease emergencies, and geopolitical pressures, this mechanism alone is unlikely to be adequate going forward.

The changing global food security and geopolitical context challenge our understanding of macro effects on supply chains. The current situation with a Canadian ally under attack and hostile occupation means that we must assume our supply chains may need to be redirected to supply our allies. However, this is only the latest and most dramatic devolution in the international geopolitical order, in which food is increasingly used as a weapon.

As our rules-based system of international trade has eroded and countries target farm and food products as an instrument of retaliation and political agendas, Canadian companies are increasingly exposed. When companies invoke shifting or arbitrary food regulation and technical standards, such as coronavirus sampling on food packaging, as a means of disguised protection, the first victim is the exporting company.

Our Canadian agri-food exporting companies are vulnerable to serious financial injury as a result, and we lived this experience in canola and pork, as have some of our allies, notably Australia. Conversely, we need to concern ourselves with the prospect of predatory foreign acquisitions of Canadian agri-food assets, stemming from the financial injury from frivolous intentional trade barriers and otherwise.

The minister's mandate letter establishes human resources as an important focus of agri-food policy. It is also encouraging that the department has developed new capacity in monitoring and analyzing supply chains through the retail and consumer task team, and this can be further expanded. We have learned through the COVID-19 pandemic that agri-food supply chains can be long, complex, and subject to shifting bottlenecks. This presents the need for expanded conceptual frameworks and much broader data collection.

Yet, some supply chain issues are really matters of efficiency and competitiveness, such as the need for a more agile regulatory system and new investment in automation and digitization. These are already known from the Barton report, the economic strategy table and previous research, and simply need to be fully enacted.

As an open economy and a major agri-food exporter, Canada can be vulnerable in an international trade environment that has grown increasingly unkind. Redoubling of market access enforcement under trade agreements is necessary, but Canada must go further.

Canadian exporters need greater protection from the abusive effects of frivolous and predatory actions of others. Increased export market advocacy, indemnification for sudden losses of market access, and increased investment in processing to support value-added exports and greater import replacements are strategies Canada should advance.

Equally, policy needs to adjust to recognize the risk that foreign investments in Canadian agri-food supply chains could be extensions of the political and mercantilist agendas of others and not aligned with Canada's interests. In this regard, Canada should be prepared with formal reviews of foreign investments and acquisitions of Canadian agri-food assets where these raise concerns.

Finally, we are two generations removed from the prospect of supply chains aligned to support allies in time of war. How this will occur, when many of today's agri-food supply chains are international and populated by competing multinational firms, is unclear. This should elevate agri-food as an element of Canada's foreign policy.

Thank you.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you, Mr. Mussell. You're right on time.

We're now going to move to Ms. Ronholm for five minutes.

4:40 p.m.

Dr. Jennifer Ronholm Assistant Professor, Faculty of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, McGill University, As an Individual

Thank you so much for inviting me.

I'm an assistant professor in agricultural microbiology at McGill University. My area of research expertise is the use of antibiotics in farming, antibiotic resistance and the development of replacement products for animal health and growth promotion.

Unfortunately, we're on the cusp of an antibiotic resistance crisis having major negative influences on agricultural productivity and therefore food costs and food security.

Antibiotics are small molecules that are used to slow or stop the growth of bacteria. They're commonly used in medicine to treat bacterial infections. In addition to infections, they're used in routine medical procedures such as surgeries, chemotherapy and childbirth due to their prophylactic or disease-prevention activities.

We've been using antibiotics in farming since the 1930s. They're used to treat bacterial infections in farm animals, but they can also be used to prevent infection or promote growth. The line between preventing infection and promoting growth is pretty blurry, since animals tend to grow better when they're not fighting bacterial infections. The problem is that, the more antibiotics we use, the faster bacteria become resistant to them.

The world is in a lot of trouble in terms of antibiotic resistance. A recent peer-reviewed report published in The Lancet found that in 2019 there were about 4.95 million human deaths associated with bacterial AMR infections. This is not an acute issue. We are seeing consistent year-over-year increases in human deaths associated with antibacterial-resistant infections, and our current projections are that by 2050 we will see 10 million human deaths per year due to AMR infections.

To be extremely clear, there's no simple fix for this. AMR deaths are caused by a range of different bacteria, and we cannot create a single vaccine or even groups of vaccines that will solve this problem, so I'll repeat that the more antibiotics we use, the faster we accelerate towards annual human death counts due to AMR.

It's difficult to come up with a number on exactly how many antibiotics we use on Canadian farms, but we estimate that about 82% of antibiotics in Canada are used on farms and not in hospitals. The knee-jerk response is a ban on antibiotics in agriculture, but this is a really bad idea. Agricultural practices evolved alongside the availability of antibiotics, and it will take time to completely remove them without catastrophic effects to productivity.

I'll give you a few examples. Prior to antibiotics becoming widely available, dairy farmers had 95% more incidences of mastitis than they do today. Mastitis is a bacterial infection that is painful for the cow, reduces milk productivity, reduces cow lifespans, and even with antibiotics, costs Canadian dairy farmers about $700 million annually. If an outright ban was placed on antibiotics today, economists estimate that it would lead to an additional cost of $46 to $73 per cow due to increased numbers of infections, and this would seriously impact the stability of the dairy industry.

I'll give you another example. We use antibiotics in the feed of a lot meat chickens, also called broilers. Broilers are typically raised to market weight in 40 days. The mortality of no-antibiotics-ever chickens is about 4.2%, compared with 2.9% for conventionally raised chickens. This is a difference of 1.3%. It might sound very small, but our neighbours to the south produced 10 billion chickens last year, making 1.3% equal to 130 million chickens. The fact that these birds died of disease and cannot enter the food chain is sad by itself, but it also represents acres of grains and the carbon emissions used to harvest those grains that have now gone to waste, and the water used to feed the birds that's now gone to waste, and the animals themselves. In addition, no-antibiotics-ever birds have higher rates of diarrhea, which leads to higher incidences of eye burns, footpad lesions and airsacculitis, each of which is an indicator of uncomfortable birds and poor bird welfare.

To summarize, my concern is that, when deaths due to AMR in humans begin mounting, there will be public outcries against agricultural uses of antibiotics. This could result in a swift ban of antibiotic use in the agricultural sector, and if it happens too quickly and without proper replacement products, there will be increased prices in food markets, and we'll see supply shortages, which will compound the medical problems that we'll be dealing with at the same time. It's better to act now to address this because we do see it coming.

Thank you.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you very much.

We're going to turn to our questions.

We're going to go to Mr. Epp for six minutes.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for their excellent testimony.

It's good to see you again, Dr. Mussell.

Before I get into your prepared remarks, I'll ask for your comment on the potential of a CP rail strike. Given our stressed supply lines, what would that do?

4:45 p.m.

Research Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute, As an Individual

Dr. Al Mussell

I have no familiarity with the likelihood of this strike, but with the demand tension in the system right now, especially relating to grain, I can only guess that it would be catastrophic.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

Thank you.

Over the last bunch of decades, our supply chains on multiple commodities have globalized, largely along market functions. You and I have argued in the past—and I've enjoyed those arguments; I sometimes think you and I argue for sport—about the necessary level of government intervention at times, and on different markets.

I'm going to go right to your last paragraph and talk about the conflict in Ukraine and the impact of this singular event, depending on how long it continues. Is this a generational event? What is the potential impact on our global supply chains in Europe, etc.?

4:50 p.m.

Research Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute, As an Individual

Dr. Al Mussell

I worry that it is generational. We'll never know that until it's in retrospect, obviously. I believe that Minister Bibeau made reference to this at the Canadian Federation of Agriculture meeting earlier this week.

This is the kind of event.... I guess I'll contrast it with the normal sorts of frictions we have in agricultural and agri-food supply chains that introduce variations in the range of 2% or 5%—something less than 10%. In my understanding, markets handle that very effectively, and messing with those functions probably creates more harm than good.

To put it into some context, Ukraine alone is geared up to feed a population probably in excess of 300 million people. The country is three weeks away from sowing spring crops, and they're in the middle of this onslaught. You have to assume that not only are the logistics of the Black Sea entirely shut down, for the most part, but the new crop may not be seeded. This is more of a 30%-level disturbance, which markets are going to be a little overwhelmed dealing with.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

Coming a bit closer to home, Canada is often a raw product exporter and a finished goods importer. As you stated in your remarks, “our rules-based system of international trade has eroded” and often farm products have been targeted as a market instrument.

Our previous study here at committee dealt with expanding processing capacity and adding more value here at home. Can you comment on that as a longer-term strategy, or even a shorter-term strategy?

4:50 p.m.

Research Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute, As an Individual

Dr. Al Mussell

Yes, for sure.

Let's go back to 2018, which was kind of the height of the U.S. tension with China. We saw China putting retaliatory duties on a whole range of products, but they were largely commodity products. To take an extreme example, they could have put a duty on iPhones, but they didn't put a duty on iPhones. iPhones are a heavily branded product and a prestige item in China.

To use that analogy, the more we can process and add value and attach a brand or another kind of identifier to our Canadian product that we export, the more that will tend to insulate it from this type of retaliation. Now, it's not perfect. It doesn't mean there's no risk from that.

Alternatively, another defence against punitive treatment of our export products is to process more of it at home and then use that as a technique for import replacement.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

You also call for a more agile regulatory system. Can you provide some examples of where this would benefit our supply chains?

Specifically, I am worried about the potential of another layer of oversight at the Pest Management Regulatory Agency and what that might do, particularly coming from a horticultural background, where the large use of minor use is such a big deal compared to our competitors in the south.

Can you comment, besides that issue, on other areas where a more agile regulatory system would be beneficial for Canadians?

4:50 p.m.

Research Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute, As an Individual

Dr. Al Mussell

I was actually going to use minor use as my example, Dave.

We have a lot of experience—I'm going to say decades—with this. The reality is that Canada is a relatively small market for animal health products, crop protection products and so on. To use another analogy, Australia describes its regulatory system as tough but fast. When you're in a small market and you need to be competitive and efficient, that should be the view for your regulatory system. This has been a challenge for us for decades.

With regard to the problems of regulation, there's a great deal of detail that goes into that, but I think maybe the first step is to flag it and identify it as a matter of priority for ongoing work.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

Thank you.

I have one quick last question. There are 450 million people in Europe. Can you talk about Ukraine's effect on less prosperous countries in North Africa, the Middle East, and the potential for instability. Where will that go?

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

You have 10 seconds.

4:55 p.m.

Research Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute, As an Individual

Dr. Al Mussell

The trade flows from the Black Sea to North Africa, the Middle East and the Horn of Africa primarily. That's who's dependent and that's who will be badly affected, so expect bread riots.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Mrs. Valdez, it's over to you for six minutes.

March 3rd, 2022 / 4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Rechie Valdez Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Good afternoon, colleagues, and thank you to all the witnesses here for providing valuable input to this discussion.

While I appreciate that we are here in committee discussing matters related to agriculture here within our country of Canada, we need to acknowledge that there is a war taking place on the other side of the world and civilians are taking up arms themselves, not just talking about their land, but fighting for that land. I just want to commend their bravery and unity, and we continue to stand with Ukraine, its people and the Ukrainian Canadian community here in Canada.

With that said, Ms. Lockwood, it's really great to hear a perspective directly from a farmer. A lot of our conversations have been really high-level. In the past committee meetings, we spoke a lot about sustainability and innovation in agriculture. With Lockwood Farms, you made the choice in your farm to feed your hens black soldier fly larvae, as opposed to soy crops. How do you feel your decision regarding sustainability on your farm affects your business overall, either your supply of products or anything else you want to comment on?

4:55 p.m.

Owner-Operator, Lockwood Farms, As an Individual

Cammy Lockwood

The reason we do things is not always for financial gain or benefit. Certainly when it comes to the environment—as we saw in 2021 here in British Columbia, where we dealt with a devastating heat dome and the impacts of the floods—the environment is, absolutely hands-down, the most important thing we need to be talking about and essentially wrapping ourselves around.

I should hope the committee is able to acknowledge and see that the climate is changing and it's having incredibly devastating impacts on us as farmers. We feel like we're doing our very small part to make a difference, and I hope that we're able to come up with some models that other farms can model after and follow suit.

We feel like we're taking the first pioneering steps, but it's everything to us. We can see it on the ground here, and I'm very concerned about the future of my children. I'm very concerned about the future of our food. These climate impacts are so huge, and when they disrupt supply chains like they do, I think the other thing that needs to be mentioned to you is the animal health and welfare. With disrupted supply chains comes great detriment to the animals, and farmers will do absolutely anything we need to do to feed our animals and to make sure they are well and safe. That is becoming increasingly difficult and taking a very strong toll on mental health for us all.

I'm sorry. I hope that answers your question.