Agriculture Committee on Nov. 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 85 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-food.

I will start with a few reminders.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee.

Colleagues, it's great to see a full room here. Of course, as Mr. MacGregor said, there's the star of the show: the Minister of Agriculture.

It's great to have you here, Minister MacAulay. I know we're going to talk about supplementary estimates (B), but we generally have a wide scope, so I'm sure you will get a number of wide-ranging questions. Of course, the officials will stick around for the second hour.

I want to start, colleagues, by recognizing that Minister MacAulay celebrated 35 years of parliamentary service last week. That is significant.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Yes. Give a round of applause. It's significant.

That will be a brief reprieve, Minister, before you get some tough questions.

It's significant, because the guy who sits in the chair wasn't even born when you started your parliamentary career. That is significant.

Thank you, Minister, for your service to Canada and, indeed, to the good people of Cardigan, whom we had the opportunity to visit this summer.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the committee is commencing its consideration of supplementary estimates (B) 2023-24 and votes 1b, 5b and 10b under the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, referred to the committee on Thursday, November 9, 2023.

Of course, we have already welcomed the honourable Minister, but I would also like to welcome his officials, who are here to support him today.

From the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, we have deputy minister Stefanie Beck. Welcome to the committee, Deputy Minister.

From the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, we have Dr. Harpreet Kochhar, who is the president. Welcome, sir.

It's great to have you here. Thank you for your collective service on behalf of Canadians.

Minister MacAulay, you have up to five minutes for opening remarks—I have a bit of leniency either way—and then we will get into the questions.

It's over to you, sir.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

It's a pleasure to be back as Minister of Agriculture at this meeting and to see some of the old faces, so that's good, as we work continually for farmers.

I'm certainly pleased to be here with Stefanie Beck and with the president of CFIA.

I understand that the committee has a number of studies and works under way, so we'll be happy to take your questions on those important subjects, but I'd like to quickly update you on the goings-on at Agriculture Canada.

The estimates you have before you total more than $355 million. The vast majority of those estimates will help Canadian dairy, poultry and egg producers and processors with the impacts of CUSMA on their businesses. This includes the beginning of the new dairy innovation and investment fund, which I announced back in September. This will help dairy producers and processors find markets for solids non-fat. With this program, we have fully delivered on the commitment to full and fair compensation for the impacts of recent trade agreements on Canadian dairy, poultry and egg producers and processors. Mr. Chair, that's a total federal investment of up to $4.8 billion to support our hard-working producers and processors, and we will continue to support our supply-management system.

The estimates also deliver on our commitment for new funding under our on-farm climate action fund. Since it was launched last year, the fund has made almost $10 million available to help thousands of farmers across Canada take real action on their farms. This includes rotational grazing practices, cover cropping and nitrogen management.

The estimates also support our first-ever agri-food trade office in Manila. We will open the new office soon to help our sector maximize sales in the Indo-Pacific region. A few weeks ago, I led an industry trade mission to the region, and I can tell you that demand for our products is growing by leaps and bounds. For example, in Vietnam our beef exports have doubled over the last couple of years.

Finally, Mr. Chair, the estimates support over $10 million for upgrades to our research laboratories across the country. They are so vital to a sustainable sector that can feed the world.

Over the past couple of years, Canadian farmers have faced extreme weather, from droughts, wildfires and floods to extreme cold. We're helping them build their resilience to climate change and profit from new green technologies.

Under the fall economic statement, we will extend the clean technology investment tax credit to include electricity and heat from waste biomass. That includes agricultural by-products such as corn stubble and manure.

The fall economic statement also includes a new underused housing tax exemption for residential properties held as a place of residence or lodging for employees.

We continue to improve the temporary foreign worker program to help farmers get the workers they need when they need them. That is why we announced the recognized employer pilot to help address labour shortages.

Finally, we continue to work for affordable food for all Canadians. We want to ensure that Canada has the right conditions for all parts of the food supply chain to prosper while ensuring affordable prices for Canadians. That's why we are supporting an industry-led grocery code of conduct for the Canadian grocery sector. The goal is to make the value chain more predictable and transparent for the benefit of everyone.

I would add that we have met with the top five major grocery chains to ensure that they have plans to stabilize food prices for Canadians while ensuring that costs are not passed on to farmers and producers. I understand that your committee will be inviting many of those folks here in the coming weeks, and I certainly appreciate your doing that.

Finally, Mr. Chair, I will continue to work to help producers and processors by supporting a more profitable, sustainable and competitive Canadian agriculture and agri-food sector.

Now, I would be pleased to take your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Minister MacAulay, for the update and for being here today.

We will turn to questions. Colleagues, remember, the time is yours, but I want to make sure I'm able to hear the question and a reasonable response in terms of the timeline.

Mr. Barlow, we will go over to you for up to six minutes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Chair. Thanks, Minister.

Minister, one of your first orders of business when you were reappointed to this file was to cut AgriRecovery by 33% for western Canadian provinces. AgriRecovery is supposed to be demand-driven. Why was the decision made to cut this important financial relief to western Canadian ranchers?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

Of course, the business risk management programs, Mr. Chair, are so vitally important. As my honourable colleague is well aware, his government cut these programs substantially. We invested $200 million more into the programs to make sure that in situations that develop, as they have over the last few years, we are able to help farmers.

Of course, you have programs and government to help farmers during a disaster, but in the end, being a farmer myself, I'm well aware that the farmer ends up paying a substantial part of it. We want to be sure that we have programs in place to help farmers get back on their feet. We went through Fiona on P.E.I. It was devastating to see, without a doubt, but it wasn't during the crop season. However, it did affect the next year's crop season, so we have to have programs in place in order to address—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

It's my time, Minister.

You did cut AgriRecovery by 33%. You say it's a vitally important program, but you did cut that program by 33%, which was important for ranchers, as you admit.

The provinces—Saskatchewan and Alberta specifically—put in their request for AgriRecovery funding in July, and normally that announcement would come out in September. It was early November when finally, at the 11th hour, the federal government came up with a portion of what would be expected. Why was there such a significant delay in the announcement of the AgriRecovery program?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

My honourable colleague is a friend of mine, but actually we did not cut AgriRecovery. In fact, what we had to make sure of was that we were investing more into the business risk management programs, as I said. Of course, yes, we received applications for AgriRecovery from the provinces, as my honourable colleague has indicated. They are vitally important programs. As I said previously, we allocated $99.2 million in funds into Alberta, $42.7 million to B.C., and over $77 million to Saskatchewan. That's a big help, but being a farmer myself, I'm well aware that possibly we need to take a look at these programs to see if we can provide even better service to the agricultural sector, because when you go through a disaster like a fire, and lose—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Minister, we'd better let....

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Minister, I'm glad you said that we should take a second look at these programs and maybe help make sure they serve better.

Your government right now is forcing a moisture map on the provinces that does not cover nearly the number of ranchers who should be covered. If you are now saying you're willing to review these programs, are you willing to commit to working with the provinces to ensure they use an accurate moisture map and that all ranchers who suffered the drought and are eligible for assistance receive the assistance they need through AgriRecovery?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Again, I don't want to have a dispute with my honourable friend, but the fact is—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Something tells me you're going to, though.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—we're working with the provinces in order to establish a map. I think that would be a better term to use in this program. What you have to do in a situation like this, in all the situations involved with farm loss, is to deal with the provinces and territories, and the agricultural sector itself, the farmers themselves, to make sure the program comes from the bottom up. That's what we have done, and that's what we're going to continue to do to make sure we provide as much help as we can when problems hit the agricultural sector. There's no question about it. We've had enough disasters to understand how vitally important these programs are.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Minister, if you're saying that the programs should come from the ground up, every single rancher in western Canada, including the premiers, disagrees with the map that your government has provided them. The agriculture ministers in those provinces are saying you're forcing a map on them that is completely inaccurate, but you're saying that this should come from the ground up. I completely agree, so you should listen to the ranchers and listen to the agriculture ministers in those provinces.

Minister, your primary responsibility in your role is to be a voice for Canadian agriculture. You voted against Bill C-234 in the House. When you realized what the bill actually was, you flip-flopped on your support, and then didn't support it. Do you still stand by your...? We have every single commodity group, agriculture group and farm group supporting Bill C-234, yet you continue to vote against it.

Do you still stand by your position that Canadian farmers support the Liberal carbon tax?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'm certainly sure that my honourable colleague would never want to leave the committee with a misunderstanding. He knows very well that we're discussing with the provinces and territories on a moisture map, and we will continue to do so.

As Minister of Agriculture, whatever sector it is, if it's climate change or anything else, I want to deal with the farm sector, and we have.

Of course, as my honourable colleague is well aware, about 97% of the fuel used in the sector is exempt from the tax on pollution, but the fact is—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I have only 15 seconds left.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

You asked the question, my good friend. I have to be able to answer it. The fact is that there are so many factors involved in what takes place—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

If you wouldn't mind, with my last couple of seconds here, would you table the document with this committee that shows that 97% of carbon taxes are exempt on farm? I'd love to see that data.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. Barlow, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Minister.

We'll turn to Mr. MacDonald.

It's over to you for six minutes.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you.

Thank you to the minister for being here.

Obviously, Minister, I'm relatively new to this committee, but there are a lot of regional issues facing provinces and the country as a whole. I know it's a strain sometimes to ensure that everyone from coast to coast to coast is satisfied with all the decisions being made at the federal level.

Minister, I follow you, obviously, on social media, and you've been across the country at least once, maybe even twice. You're talking to farmers; you're talking to ranchers, processors.

I want to know, Minister, how have you been working with the provinces to tackle some of the problems that some of these farmers and ranchers are having in their individual provinces?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much. I appreciate your question.

Of course, when you become minister, I believe, of anything, the appropriate thing to do is travel across the country to make sure you're talking with the sector that you're involved with, and without a question, that applies in agriculture.

I've been right across the country a few times, and I've met with most of the ministers across the country, whatever stripe they might be. When I meet them, they're all interested in doing one thing, helping the agricultural sector.

What I'm interested in doing is making sure we work together to put programs in place. I could give you a list of what we did with programs and what we did on the climate action program and these types of things, but these are all done with provinces. Of course, the announcements we make on these types of things basically have a climate component to them, but we make sure that the provinces are very satisfied too.

Sometimes we deal with the provinces, and then we also deal with...like the Canola Council itself. They all are involved. In Manitoba, we made an announcement a couple of weeks ago and it ended up being $9.2 million for the federal government, about $17 million in total, when you put all of this together. That's done, of course, to make sure we're able to do many things, such as, perhaps, produce a better-quality seed—a seed that would grow in a drought situation or whatever—and of course to produce seed that produces a bigger crop.

Being a farmer myself, I know the number one thing a farmer has to do is produce the crop. If you don't produce a good crop, it's pretty difficult to make a profit, so that's a very important thing.

Also, all of the other factors come into play, too.

Thank you.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Minister.

I just want to touch on something. I was in provincial politics, as you're aware, and the AgriRecovery was always—tell me if this is correct—negotiated and discussed with each provincial partner.

Is that still what happens?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I can assure you that it is, and sometimes it's not all that easy, but with 13 ministers from the provinces and territories, what we do is sit down and iron out, in fact, what type of a program can be put in place.

I've been at a number of these meetings and, in my view, that's the way it should be done. Sometimes it's not all that simple, but in the end, everybody.... There are different problems in different areas of the country. Sometimes things don't fit that well in one place and they do in another. Putting a program together for the nation can sometimes be a problem, but in general that's what we do.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Also, Minister, I know you and I, when I was first elected, before I had my seat warm in Parliament, were dealing with potato wart. It was certainly an experience for me, but I just want to ask you where we are at with potato wart and, basically, the communication between the PEI Potato Board and the Government of Canada?