Agriculture Committee on Nov. 30th, 2023

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I haven't tabulated who talked to me in favour or against, but I know that talking to the sectors—

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Were there any farm organizations in favour of Bill C-234?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I talk with people right across the country, my friend, and the fact is they are very concerned about the environment. They are also very concerned.... You will have to let me answer for a minute. If you're going to just continually ask me questions and cut me off, I can't answer you.

The fact of the matter is that farmers understand quite clearly that we have to deal with this issue. Now, it might be that everybody would like to get an exemption on this and an exemption on that. There are a lot of exemptions on the fuels for farms, but the fact is that we have to deal with the climate issue, and we are.

I can tell you that right across the country they fully understand that. I hope that's the answer that you want.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. Steinley, you have a little more time, 10 to 15 seconds, and then we'll have a quick response from the minister.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I will just say I understand that farmers are aware of what they need to do to be good stewards of the land.

I'm proud to be from Saskatchewan. We have zero till. We have rotational grazing. We have crop rotation. We have done that all with zero government programs. It was farmers' innovation, so I would ask that you do listen to our farmers, because taking $1 billion out of their pocket so they can't innovate is going to decimate the industry.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

From what I have seen across western Canada, they are certainly innovating, and they are innovating right across the country. Without any question, farmers are innovators; ranchers are innovators. They have to be in order to stay in existence.

I can assure you, my honourable colleague, that this government will do everything to help them in every way possible to make sure they succeed, because we need their meat; we need their grains; we need all of these products. The world is wide open to our products. We want to ship them, and we will.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We will now go to Mr. Louis for the final questions of the third round. I know that in French we don't say "ronde de questions", but rather "tour de questions".

I'm working on my French.

Mr. Louis, it's over to you.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for being here. I appreciate your time and your information.

In my riding of Kitchener—Conestoga, our dairy farmers are vital to our community. Across Canada, dairy farmers are a key driver to our economy. I think there are about 10,000 farms, 500 dairy processing plants, about $17 billion in sales and about 70,000 jobs in Canada.

What I want to talk about is the Canadian dairy innovation fund, which we announced in budget 2023. I would like to speak to you about that investment innovation fund and ask how the government is supporting the industry with this innovation fund and supporting supply management sectors across the country.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Louis.

It's, of course, important to the sector: $333 million to help the industry purchase, install and commission new equipment software and product lines, help remove outdated equipment—this is what we have to do to make sure that the plants are able to innovate and produce products—and help train folks on new equipment. There's so much more we have to do and, of course, there are the products that they will produce with this product when they manufacture.

That's why we have more scientists. That's why we have more people evaluating what can take place. My understanding is that you can make many things with these products, so that's what we want to do.

The product is there; the financing is there to help, and of course as a small part of it the government is there. The industry itself is investing a large amount of dollars. They understand there's a profit in this, and also they are using a product that's.... It's a world problem, in fact, this non-fat issue. What we want to make sure of is that we're on the cutting edge of that, and I think we are.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you for that.

My understanding is that funding will be allocated by region. I believe that Ontario is getting $127 million in investment. Can you explain how the funding will be delivered?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Of course. Like any program, Tim, that takes place with the Government of Canada, there have to be applications in place, and you have to meet the criteria. I don't have the total criteria right in front of me, but of course there are criteria that have to be met.

Without question, these plants will have the knowledge and ability to be able to put the programs together. It's vitally important that they do. When they apply for these programs, there are certain criteria that they have to meet. If not, I'm going to hear from my honourable colleagues to the right that we didn't follow the criteria. I could. They might mention that, so you have to be careful. You have to do it right.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I thank you for that.

I believe it's going to be delivered by the Canadian Dairy Commission, which—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Oh yes, but of course, with any federal dollars that are spent, there are programs, and in these programs there are criteria to meet. We have to make sure that's done.

Thank you so much.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

If I could go to a broader topic, I'd like to talk about the importance of supply management to Canadians. It gives farmers the stability they need. It ensures that they get a fair price, and it adds stability to production control, pricing mechanisms and import controls.

Can you just talk about your support and our government's support for supply management in general?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Tim, I could talk about supply management for a long time. I milked cows in Prince Edward Island before you fellows hired me to do this job. It's a wonderful program. When you go to other countries for agricultural meetings, one of the questions they ask you is this: How do we handle our surplus? When this thing is under control, when this thing is handled properly, there's some profit for the farmers. There's x on the products put in place. It works.

Of course, you have to be very careful with other countries trying to import. There are some coming in, and we paid up for that issue, but the fact is, I think it'll always continue that you'll find that governments want to intrude into our space in the supply management system, and it's up to governments to watch very carefully that we protect this, because it's one thing that has worked very well in this country for a long time. We want to make sure it continues.

I appreciate the question.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I thank you for your time.

I will cede the rest of my time, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Mr. Louis.

Colleagues, that brings us to the end of the first hour.

I see that Mr. MacGregor would like to take those 30 seconds, but I'm going to occupy that space, Mr. MacGregor, to, on behalf of all of you, thank the minister for being here today.

Thank you, Minister, for your service to Canada and to farmers. We look forward to sticking around with your officials to ask some further questions.

Colleagues, we'll suspend for a few minutes to let the minister leave and let the officials come up to the front bench.

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, colleagues.

We'll suspend for two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Colleagues, we're back for the second hour. We have a lot of very good, hard-working civil servants in front of us, so let me, on behalf of all of you, start by saying thank you to them.

Our deputy minister, Ms. Beck, is sticking around. Thank you for being here.

We have Marie-Claude Guérard, who is the assistant deputy minister, corporate management branch. Welcome.

We also have Tom Rosser—who is no stranger to this committee. He's the ADM for the market and industry services branch.

Thank you to all the folks at AAFC.

From CFIA, we have again Dr. Harpreet Kochhar, who is the president. He is sticking around. Thank you.

We also have Dr. Mary Jane Ireland, who I told last time that she could just set up a cot in the corner because of how many times she's been in front of this committee. I think this is the third or fourth time now, Ms. Ireland. Thank you for your service to Canadians and thank you for your service to this committee, for being here and being available.

Colleagues, as you know, there are no formal remarks or opening statements. This is just an opportunity for us to engage with department staff. We're just going to get right to it.

I have six minutes for the Conservatives.

Mr. Barlow, do you want to start, or who is starting on your side?

Colleagues, we're back for the second hour. We have a lot of very good, hard-working civil servants in front of us, so let me, on behalf of all of you, start by saying thank you to them.

Our deputy minister, Ms. Beck, is sticking around. Thank you for being here.

We have Marie-Claude Guérard, who is the assistant deputy minister, corporate management branch. Welcome.

We also have Tom Rosser—who is no stranger to this committee. He's the ADM for the market and industry services branch.

Thank you to all the folks at AAFC.

From CFIA, we have again Dr. Harpreet Kochhar, who is the president. He is sticking around. Thank you.

We also have Dr. Mary Jane Ireland, who I told last time that she could just set up a cot in the corner because of how many times she's been in front of this committee. I think this is the third or fourth time now, Ms. Ireland. Thank you for your service to Canadians and thank you for your service to this committee, for being here and being available.

Colleagues, as you know, there are no formal remarks or opening statements. This is just an opportunity for us to engage with department staff. We're just going to get right to it.

I have six minutes for the Conservatives.

Mr. Barlow, do you want to start, or who is starting on your side?

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'm not sure who will take this.

Maybe, Ms. Beck, you'll take this.

The minister mentioned, in answer to my questions and, I think, to a couple of questions from colleagues, the fact that he's willing to review the decision on AgriRecovery, for example. I have spoken personally with the agriculture ministers in the provinces, and they are frustrated, to say the least, with the moisture maps that the federal government is enforcing—basically to take it or leave it—compared to what the provinces are wanting to work with, to ensure that every farmer or rancher who is eligible and who suffered through either drought conditions or flood conditions this summer—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Ms. Taylor-Roy.

Okay, she's on silent now.

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

No worries.

I'm just wondering if there is an opportunity to review these maps. Who on the federal government side makes the decision as to what map is being used?

[Stefanie Beck, Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

I think it is probably too late in this round for these particular events that happened over the past summer. In fact, there's a negotiated agreement on which maps are used. We have our own analysis, of course, and we offer that to the provinces as something they can use, but they are also fully able to overlay, for instance, and that did happen in one province, the maps they find most appropriate because of what we have been talking about all morning—the discrepancies even from acre to acre in some cases. It is very hard, of course, to be specific—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.

I understand that, Ms. Beck, but when you say it was a negotiation, it's very clear from my conversations with the provincial agriculture ministers that this was not a negotiation. This has basically been at the 11th hour. Literally, in Alberta, when the provincial agriculture minister was at the podium to make the announcement, he got a text saying, “No, no, we're using this map and this is the map you'll be using.” This didn't seem to be the typical collegial negotiation it has been in the past. This was much more of a top-down measure, I guess.

You said it's too late for this year. I gather that, but was there a difference this time around in terms of how this was negotiated? It seems on the provincial side to be a much more contentious process than it has been in the past.

[Stefanie Beck]

I wasn't there for the previous round of negotiations, but what we were looking for was evidence of 50% difference in damage caused. Perhaps in earlier years it wasn't that high or it was higher. I'm not sure. The amount is never fixed, right? Obviously, it varies depending on what's going on in the particular event, so it's not as though.... Indeed, I was in Saskatchewan recently too, and they were asking why we weren't paying exactly the same amount as last time around. It's a different event. Obviously, the criteria are different, but the actual negotiating process would not be different.

My recollection is actually not what you're saying. In fact, I had some very specific conversations with my deputy minister colleagues, in which I said, “What is it that you need? What do you want to use? We're completely flexible on what tools you use to make this assessment.”

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I guess I'll just leave it at that.

Maybe there are documents you can table with the committee in this regard. The provinces were asking for a map to be used during the driest time of the year, which was June. The federal government came back and said to use this map from later in August, which represented a significant difference in moisture. August is too late. I would just encourage you to make sure that the maps the federal government is using are actually accurate with respect to the time when they are most needed.

Dr. Kochhar, thank you very much for coming. We haven't had a chance to have you at committee in a while.

In his questions to the minister, my colleague Mr. MacDonald mentioned the P.E.I. potato wart issue. It's been more than two years since the ban on the export of P.E.I. seed potatoes. I think that to say there's some frustration with CFIA on this issue would be an understatement.

I would really appreciate an update from you. An international review committee appointed by the Liberal government last year came out with its report saying there was no risk of potato wart in the seed potato industry in P.E.I., yet the ministerial order is still in place.

Can you give us an update? I understand that CFIA is meeting with the potato board later this month or in December. Can you give us an update on what the situation is?