Agriculture Committee on March 21st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Good morning, colleagues. I call this meeting to order.

It is a great pleasure to see you, particularly the members who are taking part in the meeting in person. I hope you have all made good use of the break, which allowed you to spend a few weeks in your ridings.

Today's meeting deals with the supplementary estimates (C).

Welcome to the ninth meeting of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-food.

Before starting the meeting, I would like to offer a few reminders.

The meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House Order of November 25, 2021.

The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee.

I would remind all participants that screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted.

And the last point, I would remind the members taking part in person that they must keep in mind the Board of Internal Economy's guidelines for mask use and health protocols.

I have a few comments for our witnesses.

I recognize that we have the deputy minister and other folks here. I suspect this is not your first rodeo in front of a committee, but make sure you raise your hand and work through the chair in your interactions. Languages are available at the bottom of your screens.

It's our pleasure to have you today.

Good morning, Minister.

Welcome. It is a pleasure to have you here today.

Thank you for all your work.

You have five minutes for opening statements, and then we'll turn to questions. I pass the floor over to you, Minister.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to note that the following people are taking part in the meeting virtually: Chris Forbes, Deputy Minister; Marie-Claude Guérard, Assistant Deputy Minister, Finance; and Sylvie Lapointe and Philippe Morel from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

I want to start by saying a few words about the situation in Ukraine. On March 11, I met with the G7 agriculture ministers at an extraordinary meeting attended by the Ukrainian Minister of Agriculture, Roman Leschenko.

I assured Mr. Leschenko that Canada was going to continue to support Ukraine in these difficult times. The G7 ministers also reiterated the importance of collaboration to ensure that the cross-border movement of goods is not interrupted.

We are already seeing very strong pressure on the global supply of foodstuffs and agricultural inputs, particularly fertilizer and fuel, with the resulting rapid rise in prices.

With an additional $942,000, the supplementary estimates bring our total budget for fiscal 2021‑2022 to over $3.9 billion, making it the largest in history. The department has about 5,000 employees.

Our supplementary estimates, which come to a little over $22 million, demonstrate the government's commitment to helping the sector meet the current challenges.

A little more than half of the supplementary estimates supports our $28 million investment in helping Prince Edward Island potato producers manage the surpluses resulting from the closing of the border with the United States. I am resolved to restore the trade in fresh Prince Edward Island potatoes with the United States and to support our producers.

The estimates also include $292.5 million for the Supply Management Processing Investment Fund, which I announced just under two weeks ago. This investment involves over $3 billion in total compensation payments to support producers and processors of dairy, poultry and egg products.

Since our last meeting, we have continued to make new investments to help Canadian producers strengthen their resilience for dealing with climate change. If we consider the devastating effects of the recent floods in British Columbia and the historic drought that struck western Canada, there is no doubt that we have to redouble our efforts to enable our agri-food producers to continue to feed a growing global population.

We have worked with the provinces to provide over $1 billion through the AgriRecovery program and the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements to help western producers who have suffered from drought and flooding.

Our government has committed to paying more than a half billion dollars over the next decade in our new programs to help farmers adopt sustainable practices and clean technologies. That includes the Agricultural Clean Technology Program, which helps producers everywhere in Canada invest in technologies that reduce environmental impact, such as high-efficiency grain dryers, solar panels, or precision agriculture.

There is also the On‑Farm Climate Action Fund, which is offering $200 million to help farmers combat climate change and adopt beneficial practices, such as cover cropping, fertilizer management and rotational grazing practices.

Labour is another major challenge for this sector. I'm working with governments and industry to develop an agricultural labour strategy. I'm also working with Minister Fraser to expand pathways to permanent residence for agricultural temporary foreign workers. I will continue to dedicate myself to supporting the safe and timely arrival of temporary foreign workers this year. Last year, we welcomed a record 70,000 workers to farms across the country.

Significant challenges remain for Canada's agriculture sector. The current CP labour dispute will worsen existing pressures on our supply chain. This is a critical issue for all producers, including livestock producers. The work stoppage will have a significant impact on the importation of cattle feed from the United States, when availability is already limited following last summer's drought. There would also be a significant impact on the transport of fertilizers during the critical seed season, when world food security is destabilized by the war in Ukraine.

Both parties are still negotiating. We are urging them to work together to resolve their issues and reach a deal as quickly as possible, and we'll continue to do so. Canadians have worked together throughout the pandemic to find solutions to our collective challenges. They expect the same from such actors in our national economy. We continue to support the parties so they reach an agreement soon.

As well, CFIA continues to work with poultry producers to eliminate and prevent the spread of avian influenza in Atlantic Canada.

There are significant challenges, but I believe the long-term future is bright for our industry. FPT ministers and industry are working hard to develop the next policy framework of agriculture, to run from 2023 to 2028. Through this framework, our farmers and food processors will be able to ensure that Canada remains a world leader in sustainable food production, and we will build on recent reforms of our business risk management programs to make them more timely and equitable.

Mr. Chair, I appreciate this opportunity and I'm happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Minister.

As you were speaking, I was talking to the clerk. I apologize. You had 10 minutes and I might have said five. I'm sorry if we rushed you. Are you good? Okay, excellent.

We'll turn it over to our question period. We're going to start with the Conservatives, with Mr. Barlow for six minutes.

It's over to you, Mr. Barlow.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the minister for being here. I appreciate that.

On February 1, AAFC announced $28 million for the surplus potato management program in P.E.I., to divert some of those potatoes that weren't going to be exported. However, what we've seen in the supplementaries, which we're here for today, is that only $12 million was allocated for that program.

Is the other $16 million going to be rolled over into the next fiscal year? Where is that discrepancy? Why is that not the total that was promised?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

It was coming from an internal transfer. We already had a portion of the $28 million available within the existing budget, and we needed additional funds to get to $28 million.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

We know we've lost last year's crop, and there's not much we can do about that. The P.E.I. Potato Board is asking for $84 million in compensation for that lost crop. With the diversion program, you're paying about eight cents per pound, which is maybe a quarter of what they're worth. Are there discussions to provide compensation for the loss of last year's crop?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

As you know, the first safety net that we have available for our farmers is the business risk management programs. With the province, we have extended the application date for all farmers, so that they are still able to apply to AgriStability. We have also increased the interim payment to 75%, so they can get money quickly if they need to. AgriInvest is another one. These are the first steps, and then we are adding $28 million, as you know, to divert—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I have only a certain amount of time. You're saying, basically, that they have to look at AgriStability and AgriInvest. There is not going to be additional money from the government for that compensation.

The crux of this issue, Minister.... You also stated quite emphatically that on March 10 we would have some news on what is going to be happening with the trade to the United States. That date has long passed. As I said, we've lost last year's crop. Now the desperation of P.E.I. producers is about this crop coming up. What do they do? What do they plan? They have to make that decision within days.

On what date will you lift the suspension and the ministerial order on P.E.I. potato exports? On what date will that be lifted?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I have to maybe reframe the statement, because the situation is this. When I went to Washington with Minister MacAulay in January, we had this discussion with Secretary Vilsack and we asked him.... We put a lot of pressure, because first we had to make the decision on whether we had to destroy some potatoes during the very cold season, and then we knew other decisions would have to be made in the spring. We pushed them, and what they told us at the time was that it could take five to six weeks to proceed with the risk analysis for table-stock potatoes to the mainland. They said within two weeks for Puerto Rico, and they did that.

I can assure you that we are in constant discussions with them. I am in communication with Secretary Vilsack directly, and we see progress. We got it for Puerto Rico. I'm confident that we will reach the same for the mainland soon.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Assurances and hope aren't going to save the P.E.I. seed potato industry. Everything we're hearing from our American counterparts is that this is a decision and a Canadian-based problem that needs a Canadian-based solution.

Why will you not lift the suspension and the ministerial order, and see if the Americans will bring in a federal order, which you have said is your main concern? Will you go to CUSMA under the dispute resolution mechanisms that are there? At least P.E.I. potato farmers will have a path or a timeline to know when something is going to happen.

Answer yes or no: Will you lift those suspensions, will you go through CUSMA and the dispute resolution mechanisms, or will you go to the WTO to try to get this resolved?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

There are two things. First, the ministerial order limits the movement of seed potatoes out of the island. We have to do that to protect the other Canadian provinces as well. The ministerial order also says that table-stock and processing potatoes can move—and you can see them moving across Canada—following strict phytosanitary measures or compliance agreements. This is what we believe is the right thing to do. This is what we are explaining in different ways to the Americans. We hope they will agree with this conclusion. The Americans are undertaking their own risk analysis.

The ministerial order has nothing to do with the closure of the border. The closure of the border is there because the Americans want to proceed with further analysis.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

It does have something to do with the Americans, because the Americans have told you to put in that ministerial order to not allow those seed potatoes to go across Canada. You have made these decisions based on a threat from the United States. You're letting the United States dictate our international trade, as well as our interprovincial trade. I see you're shaking your head, but these are decisions that you made and you implemented.

I have only a minute left.

If you're not going to go through CUSMA and you're not going to go through the WTO, would you look at reciprocal bans? The United States has at least a dozen states that have quarantinable pests in their potatoes that we are importing to Canada, while we, at the same time, are banning our own products from going to the United States.

Would you look at reciprocal bans on American products to retaliate against this decision?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'm sorry. We're at six minutes. I know the minister will have another opportunity to answer that.

Mr. Turnbull, you now have the floor for six minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the minister for being here. It's great to see you. I haven't had a chance to see you since you did a really great food security round table in my riding. I wanted to thank you for that. My constituents and the organizations in my riding were very grateful for that opportunity to speak directly with you.

This relates to my first question, which is a concern in my riding of Whitby and across the Durham Region. During COVID-19, we've seen an increase in food insecurity in our communities. The use of food banks, food hampers, food pantries, etc., has increased. We've done many food drives in the community to increase access to non-perishable foods. Obviously, this is a result of the global pandemic. There have been job losses and income loss, and all of that relates to people's ability to access healthy, affordable food.

In regard to this, Minister, I wanted to ask you what measures have been taken to counter this increase in food insecurity during COVID-19.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

You're right. COVID-19 has been really hard on Canadians' wallets. Not long ago, through the food policy I am responsible for as Minister of Agriculture, we launched programs with food banks across Canada. We have chosen six main partners to provide money to food banks across the country in the best way possible. We went step by step to make sure it was done in the right way. We could see at every step that it was flowing the right way across the country. There was $330 million directed to the food banks and $50 million to buy surplus food from our producers and processors and to direct it to food banks again.

As you know, we have the school food program that Minister Gould and I are working on. I really look forward to continuing our work with these partners.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister. I know the support given out during the COVID-19 pandemic has been really helpful for food security organizations in my community, so thank you for that.

I notice you also mentioned the B.C. floods and the extreme weather in the prairies—the drought, etc. We know that these extreme weather events have been devastating for our farmers, especially for smaller operators. I think they are even more vulnerable to being able to absorb some of the shocks that these extreme weather events cause. We've also seen how many months of work and investments can be wiped out in a matter of minutes.

It has highlighted for me the importance of the support through the business risk management programs. Can you tell us about these programs and how they've helped farmers and producers during times of crisis? Given the pattern of weather that we're seeing due to climate change, which is obviously ever more concerning, how can we ensure that these programs are sustainable in the long run? Obviously, the demand for the programs will increase.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes. You're so right. We had to face the drought in the west and then the floods in B.C. Farmers are the first ones to be affected by these extreme weather events.

We have our business risk management in place, and we also have the disaster financing assistance program. For B.C. we were able provide, with the province, $228 million. I understand the applications are already being made. Money is being sent to farmers. In the last year or so, we've improved the AgriStability program, which is the first safety net that farmers benefit from when they face a hard situation. We removed the reference margin limit, which put $95 million more into this program. We still hope that the prairie provinces will join and we will be able to increase the compensation rate from 70% to 80%.

I can tell you that while we are discussing the next framework agreement for 2023 to 2028, business risk management is also being discussed.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you for that. That's great. I think in the next policy framework, there obviously will be questions and discussion on how those programs get reframed. Thank you for that response.

How much time do I have, Mr. Speaker...or Mr. Chair? I just promoted you to Speaker—unintentionally.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Congratulations.

To go back to Mr. Barlow's comments about CUSMA and the dispute resolution mechanism that's built in, is that a quick solution, in your view? My understanding is that it would be quite time-intensive and quite long. I'm not sure whether it would provide the kind of resolution in a timely fashion that we're probably looking for.

Would you agree with that, Minister?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes. This mechanism has been used by the U.S. concerning our TRQs for the dairy sector. We can see that the first response was obtained in eight months. That's considered to be quite fast, but it's not done yet. In terms of all the responses, it's not finished yet.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull, and thank you, Minister.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, everyone.

Thank you for being with us today, Minister. We greatly appreciate it.

In terms of the amounts announced, can we believe they will cover all of the compensation owed to producers under supply management in connection with CUSMA, the Canada—United States—Mexico Agreement?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you for the question.

No. The amounts announced to date total $3 billion, if I round the number off, and are divided as follows: $2 billion for dairy producers, $691 million for poultry producers, and $292 million for processors. That covers all compensation payments in connection with the agreements with Europe and the Asia-Pacific zone.

Our commitment is still just as firm: to provide full and fair compensation to help the producers having to cope with the repercussions of CUSMA. We will be announcing the details over the first year of our term, between now and the fall.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

So there is nothing provided regarding CUSMA, if I understand correctly.

Obviously, I acknowledge the sincerity of your commitment, Ms. Bibeau. However, the producers are getting a bit impatient.

Can we expect that there will be details in the next budget?