Evidence of meeting #11 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Taylor  President and Chief Executive Officer, Lactalis Canada Inc.
Henn  Chief Legal Officer, Loblaw Companies Limited
Rivet  Vice President, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary, Metro Inc.
Brisebois  Past President and Chief Executive Officer, Retail Council of Canada
Stock  Senior Policy and Government Relations Advisor, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
Sands  Senior Vice-President, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers

The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 11 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we continue, I'd like to ask all members here to consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. Make sure that, when you are speaking, you keep a distance from the microphone, and be aware that the interpreters are listening in. For their health and safety, it's good to review the cards.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking, or until you are asked questions directly by a member of Parliament. For those participating by teleconference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. Remember that all comments should be made through the chair.

Before we begin with the witnesses, I'd like to get consent to adopt the budget for our study on the importation of broiler meat mislabelled as spent fowl. A draft version has already been circulated.

Is it the will of the committee to adopt this budget? It's roughly $1,000.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau

That's perfect.

Mr. Barlow.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Thank you, Chair.

I want to get this out of the way, as well. I believe this has been circulated to everybody. I want to table a motion that addresses associate members of the committee with all parties. The motion is to allow associate members access to the digital binder.

The motion reads:

That, notwithstanding the usual practices of the committee concerning access to and distribution of documents,

a. up to three associate members of the committee per party be authorized to receive the notices of meetings and notices of motion and be granted access to the digital binder;

b. that the associate members be designated by the offices of the whips of each recognized party and sent to the committee clerk; and

c. that the provisions of this motion expire as of January 26, 2026 unless otherwise ordered.

The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau

I believe there is consensus there.

(Motion agreed to)

Okay.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, September 18, the committee is resuming its study of the update on the implementation of the grocery code of conduct.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses today.

From Lactalis Canada Inc., we have Mark Taylor, who is joining us online. From Loblaw Companies Limited, we have Nick Henn, chief legal officer, also joining us online. From Metro Inc., we have Simon Rivet, vice-president. Thank you so much for joining us here in person.

We'll start with Lactalis Canada for five minutes.

Mark Taylor President and Chief Executive Officer, Lactalis Canada Inc.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

As the president of Lactalis Canada, a leading dairy processor in Canada’s food supply chain, I appreciate the invitation to share my perspective on the Canadian grocery code of conduct.

In 2018, I was asked for my insights on the U.K. code of conduct. These insights were based on my experience implementing and working in a code environment for a leading manufacturer in the U.K. Today, seven years later, I am here to continue that conversation.

I’ll begin by saying this. A grocery code of conduct, correctly used, is good for business—everyone’s business, suppliers and retailers—but, ultimately, it's good for Canadian consumers. Of course, the Canadian code, while drafted and final, is still not formally operational. We have made some positive inroads to arrive at this point, but I think that many of my industry peers would agree that we are certainly not at the finish line.

First, we must acknowledge that Canada’s grocery code of conduct is the product of compromise. It was drafted through extensive negotiation among various stakeholders with varying priorities. This process resulted in language, text, that, without enforcement tools, creates challenges in achieving the code’s objectives.

In the U.K., the code initially focused on the largest retailers and suppliers, around 85% of the market. This allowed for rapid adoption and best practice development that trickled down to all businesses. Canada’s approach involves many more parties, adding complexity to alignment and to implementation. Another significant difference is that, while Canada has incorporated elements of the U.K. code, the Canadian code is not enshrined in law; it is voluntary. The adjudicator has no enforcement tools. In the U.K., the possibility of fines was a powerful motivator for engagement, even though it was very rarely used.

As a result of the code not being mandatory, adoption will be highly variable. In this framework, the code’s uptake will depend on each respective supplier’s or retailer’s understanding of it and organizational leadership supports. Some will see the code as an obstacle to be circumvented and something that offers little resistance to normal business practices. Others will fully embrace the code's true intent, enabling business certainty and meaningful collaboration and creating win-win outcomes through continuous improvement across supply chains. At this stage, it is difficult to predict the proportionality of the various outcomes, but what is certain—and this was our experience in the U.K.—is that if we all focus on using the code to deliver positive outcomes for all, we will see support grow quickly.

It is important to note that commercial relationships built on fees, fines and euphemistically termed “asks” are not healthy. They undermine certainty and trust and drive short-term profit margin tactics that distract us from what really matters, which is delivering the best value for Canadians. These costs inevitably flow back into supplier and retailer pricing, ultimately hitting the consumer’s wallet.

As a manufacturer, our purpose is to make and supply high-quality, nutritious products for Canadians. I am fully motivated to do as much of this as possible. Anyone who thinks that a threat of compliance or fill rate penalties will somehow encourage me to prioritize one customer over another is misguided. These penalties are a drain on resources that would otherwise be invested in manufacturing capacity, capability, efficiency and innovation.

In conclusion, I am confident that the code’s principles and objectives remain critical to a strong grocery supply chain. We know from international experience that a code of conduct can deliver real value. In the U.K., where the code has been in place for over a decade, the U.K. groceries code adjudicator’s annual survey findings demonstrate that over 90% of suppliers report improved compliance and fair dealings. Retailers also universally acknowledge stronger relationships and greater efficiency as positive impacts resulting from the existence of a code. These outcomes demonstrate that when principles of fairness and transparency are embraced, the benefits extend across the entire value chain for all parties, including consumers.

Looking at our current reality in Canada, the time is now to unlock the Canadian grocery code’s full potential. I remain optimistic that we will achieve this goal together.

Thank you, and I look forward to the committee’s questions.

The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau

Thank you very much.

Next, we'll go to Nick Henn.

Nick Henn Chief Legal Officer, Loblaw Companies Limited

Good afternoon. Thank you for inviting me to address the committee today.

I'm pleased to share some thoughts on the grocery industry code of conduct. Before I start, I want to provide some context for how we at Loblaw think about the grocery code.

At the outset, let me be clear that Loblaw supports the grocery code and intends to sign up as a member. We have been an active participant in the efforts and process leading up to implementation. We have also been hard at work with our own preparations to make sure that we're ready to fully implement the code when it comes into place in January.

At its essence, Loblaw is a customer business. We exist to provide essential products and services to customers in communities across Canada. Every day, customers get to choose which food store or pharmacy they buy products from. Consequently, we have to ensure that we have the right products on shelves at the right quality and price that customers expect.

The backbone of this effort is the work of our more than 220,000 colleagues, but equally important are the suppliers who provide the broad range of high-quality products that fill our shelves. These suppliers include many of the largest global brands and well-known Canadian suppliers, as well as thousands of small and medium manufacturers and producers from across the country. Our supplier base reflects the diversity of the needs of our customers.

To support our commitments to our customers and to ensure that shelves are full with the right products when and where customers choose to shop, it is imperative that we have strong relationships with our suppliers. Ultimately, we cannot build a long-term, sustainable business unless our suppliers are also able to thrive. This principle has been central to our success over many decades.

I want to provide a couple of examples of how our approach to managing our supplier relationships shows up in practice.

As I mentioned earlier, we are deeply committed to supporting Canadian suppliers. Our customers have an increasing interest in purchasing products from their home provinces and regions, and we work hard to satisfy those demands through new products, new suppliers and new innovation. In 2025 alone, we have onboarded more than 140 new Canadian suppliers. We believe that is one of the best ways we can use the scale of our business to ensure that Canadian food businesses and growers succeed. One of these companies is Les Tartes de Simonne from Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean. Four of their famous pies are now in every one of our Maxi stores in Quebec. Our customers continue to respond positively to our new suppliers as we bring their products to stores.

Another great example of our commitment to our supplier partners is our small-supplier program. Loblaw does business with over 1,000 small Canadian suppliers, and the program is built to ensure that suppliers get the kind of support they need. Companies like Crafty Ramen get onboarded and supported with guaranteed listings, fast payments and access to sales-point data. All of this is to make sure that their products have the best chance to reach Canadians. Ultimately, the goal is to see them grow to become a bigger supplier to us and others.

We recognize that, despite our efforts to be a good retail partner to our suppliers, we're sometimes a complex organization to deal with. We continue to actively listen to our suppliers to understand their concerns. We work to make changes, where necessary and where we can, to our policies, processes and systems to reduce friction for all of us. We believe that the grocery code can play a role in reducing that friction, and we're optimistic that it will achieve its goal of improving supplier-retailer interactions across the industry.

Loblaw was actively engaged in the development of the grocery code through 2023 and into the summer of 2024, alongside other industry members. We have continued to be involved as the industry and the code office have worked to finalize the outstanding governance documents, most notably the dispute resolution management process. Based on recent active discussions, we are very hopeful that the governance documents will be finalized shortly.

I suspect that the committee is curious as to why these processes to finalize the code and the supporting documents take so long. In short, it is because the details matter when you're talking about impacting a sector as complex as the food supply chain. Each participant in the working group and, I'm sure, the interim board of the code wants to make sure that the words reflect the intentions and purpose of the grocery code. Taking the time to get those right up front makes sense and ensures that parties are aligned going into full implementation of the grocery code.

Let me reiterate that once the remaining grocery code documents are finalized, Loblaw plans to join as a member of the code and contribute to its implementation and governance going forward.

I'd be pleased to answer any questions the committee has.

The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau

Thank you very much.

Next we'll go to Mr. Rivet.

Simon Rivet Vice President, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary, Metro Inc.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the committee.

My name is Simon Rivet and I'm vice-president, general counsel and corporate secretary at Metro. I'm here at the invitation of the committee to contribute to your study on the implementation of the grocery code of conduct.

With strong roots in Quebec and a growing presence in Ontario since 1999, Metro has always been committed to offering quality products and value to its customers. We know that our success depends on the people and partners who actively participate in the Canadian food system. Our relationships with our suppliers are based on trust, good faith, respect and fairness, which has always allowed us to develop successful solutions through mutually satisfactory agreements.

Canadians count on grocers to provide quality food at affordable prices, and we take that responsibility seriously. Affordability remains a challenge for many households. As we have said before, food price increases have largely reflected higher input costs from suppliers, whether due to commodities, energy, transportation, labour or, more recently, tariffs. These are factors that we do not control.

Despite this, we remain committed to driving tangible results across our operations as we work to keep costs in check while improving how we deliver food at affordable prices to Canadians every day. We've invested nearly $1 billion in recent years to modernize our distribution network, improving efficiency and service for both suppliers and customers. We continue to expand affordable options through value programs and discount formats, ensuring Canadians have choice in all the communities we serve.

We're also proud of our work to strengthen local sourcing and reduce food waste. Metro works with many local and regional suppliers in Quebec and Ontario. Through long-standing partnerships with Feed Ontario and Food Banks of Quebec, we ensure that surplus food is redirected to those in need.

Beyond our own initiatives, we have always emphasized a partnership-driven culture with our vendors, built on good faith, trust and fairness. That same approach underpins our engagement in the development of the grocery code of conduct to reinforce best practices and transparency. Suppliers and retailers alike must voluntarily decide to sign the code, and that can only happen if there is a solid framework in place, a point that was echoed by Karen Proud during her testimony in front of this committee.

Metro's position is clear: We are committed to adopting the industry-led grocery code of conduct once finalized, and we believe the participation of all grocers and suppliers is essential to its success.

Since 2021, through the Retail Council of Canada, Metro has been actively contributing to and participating in various working groups to help define the code's principles of fairness, predictability, and good faith. These principles benefit the entire supply chain, including consumers, who rely on a stable and competitive system.

I can confirm that all major retailers, including Metro, are sitting at the table while we discuss the outstanding issues. We are optimistic that suppliers and retailers will agree on the few points that remain for the code to be implemented.

In parallel with the code's development, we have proactively reviewed our supplier policies and processes to align with the code. By supporting the principles of the code within our organization, Metro is enhancing transparency, predictability and fair dealing throughout the supply chain.

Canadians rely on food retailers to act responsibly and strike a balance between offering value to consumers and treating suppliers fairly. This balance is central to Metro's approach. We continue to work constructively with the office of the grocery sector code of conduct and our counterparts to ensure its success, while continuing our efforts to build consumer trust. We're very proud of the active role Metro has played in developing this code and will continue to work toward its implementation.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Barlow from the Conservatives for the first round of six minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Rivet, you mentioned at the very beginning of your testimony the higher input costs. You talked about transportation, fuel and all of those costs that are having an impact on the price of groceries. We see from the most recent reports that food inflation is up another 4% in Canada. Food inflation is 50% higher in Canada than it is in the United States. It's rising at that rate.

Is there anything in the grocery code of conduct that will lower food prices at the retailer store shelf?

3:45 p.m.

Vice President, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary, Metro Inc.

Simon Rivet

The grocery code of conduct is not to lower prices. The purpose is to establish a framework for transparency and fairness in the relationship between supplier and retailer. That will help, we hope, smaller retailers and smaller suppliers. The main purpose is not really to control costs.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Mr. Henn, would you agree with that assessment from your colleague in terms of the grocery code of conduct and its impact on prices at the grocery store shelf?

3:50 p.m.

Chief Legal Officer, Loblaw Companies Limited

Nick Henn

Yes, I would. Specifically, the grocery code does not regulate in any way the negotiation of costs between suppliers and retailers. We don't expect it to have a positive or a negative impact on prices.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Thank you for that.

I just find that interesting. About a year ago, the then minister of industry was saying that the salve for rising grocery prices in Canada was the grocery code of conduct and that it would solve all the problems. Clearly, that is not the case, and saying that the grocery code of conduct will have an impact on grocery prices is misleading.

Mr. Rivet, what assurance is there, whether for Ms. Proud or Canadians, that with the grocery code being voluntary, if there is ever a decision rendered that Metro does not agree with, Metro would not just withdraw from membership of the grocery code of conduct?

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but is there anything in the grocery code of conduct that would preclude you, as a member, from withdrawing from the code, should Metro not agree with the direction it's going in?

3:50 p.m.

Vice President, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary, Metro Inc.

Simon Rivet

Well, the code is a voluntary code, obviously. We have said all along that we believe in the principles underpinning the code—transparency and fairness. We believe these principles are already in place at Metro, so we have a very good relationship with our suppliers. Frankly, I think we have to give it a go.

Once the dispute resolution process is settled and we know that there is a broad-based adoption of the code, then definitely Metro will join the code. We're there to participate, as we've done in the past. We've been there since 2021, negotiating with all the parties and all the stakeholders, so we really believe in that code.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Mr. Henn, I would ask you the same question.

Are there some assurances to Canadians that, should there be a decision that is rendered against Loblaws, Loblaws would not simply remove itself from membership of the grocery code of conduct? Is there long-term commitment from Loblaws to be a member of this new initiative?

3:50 p.m.

Chief Legal Officer, Loblaw Companies Limited

Nick Henn

Absolutely. The way to think about it is that the code is an industry code. We have been part of shaping that code, and we have very much bought into it. Alongside Metro and other retailers, we've been part of finalizing the governance documents. Even within our organization, we've spent many hours preparing for the code. Since the summer, really, we've been operating as though the code were in place. We'll continue to do that through the balance of this year and into January.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Thanks, Mr. Henn. I appreciate that.

Having Mr. Taylor here, with his experience with the U.K. grocery code of conduct, is an excellent opportunity. The reason for my questioning both of our retailers is that if they have a long-term commitment to the grocery code, mandatory might have been more effective than voluntary. Certainly, the United Kingdom has gone through that process where it started out as voluntary and eventually had to go mandatory.

Can you maybe explain or elaborate on what initiated that move from voluntary to mandatory? Why did that become necessary in the U.K.?

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Lactalis Canada Inc.

Mark Taylor

As you quite rightly pointed out, the code in the U.K. started off as voluntary around 2009. It failed to achieve any positive traction. In the end, the government decided that it would legislate. It wrote a couple of pages into the statute books—very light text. It also made the important move to give the adjudicator teeth, with the ability to levy fines. It's very rarely used, but those two things together, I think, were what catalyzed that positive change.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

You mentioned that there are no real enforcement tools in the voluntary code in Canada. Is that going to be an issue?

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Lactalis Canada Inc.

Mark Taylor

I guess we'll find out after January. One hopes not.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

I do, too.

The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau

Thanks.

We're going to the Liberals for six minutes.

Go ahead, MP Dandurand.