Agriculture Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

I have one more question for you. There has been talk about the dispute resolution mechanism, and that's probably the final thing that needs to be decided before we move forward. As the independent grocers are part of this, do you think we could move forward without having that fully finalized?

[Gary Sands]

No, I think we have to have the dispute resolution process finalized.

I'm going to choose my words carefully because I am a member, as Diane is, of the grocery code interim board. I'll tell you, on behalf of our members, that we're comfortable with the direction we're moving in. We're comfortable with where we think we're going to land on that, but absolutely, the dispute resolution process is the final piece that we all recognize needs to be put in place. I think there are a number of industry participants, in both retail and supply, who are holding back from becoming signatories to the code until that's finalized.

There is one quick thing I could just throw out, which is important to remember. The code, especially when you're talking about issues like pricing, doesn't level the playing field—the industry is what the industry is—but the dispute resolution process does level the playing field. Everyone is treated equally under that process, and I think that's an important element that often gets overlooked.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

I have a quick question for Mr. Stock. I have only about 30 seconds, I think.

You talked about the limit of market options and how that affects your members. Can you expand a bit on that?

[Gordon Stock]

I think the main one is the consolidated retail market in Canada, but there is also the trouble that we have with limited export opportunities. There is a substantial market south of the border, but we all know that market is also not entirely reliable at the moment. If we run into challenges there, then we're going to have broader market problems in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Perron, you have six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here. I appreciate it.

Hello, Ms. Brisebois. My first remarks are for you.

[Diane Brisebois]

Hello.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

After years of work and many negotiations, as you said earlier, you worked hard to draft a code. There seems to be some difficulty in coming to a final agreement on the dispute resolution mechanism. Is there anything else?

What has to happen for the five big retailers to comply with the Canada grocery code of conduct? So far, I think just one of them has expressed an interest.

[Diane Brisebois]

As Mr. Sands and Ms. Proud said, the final details were settled last week. There is just one step left, the completion of the dispute resolution mechanism process.

It will not be perfect, of course. Once we have finalized that process, we hope that the big retail chains and suppliers alike will want to become members and subscribe to the grocery code of conduct.

It should be noted that the code includes a provision allowing for a new board of directors to be elected next year to make minor changes to ensure that the code is working well for all stakeholders.

As noted, it is a work in progress. Right now, we still have to finalize the dispute resolution process.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

One of the sticking points we discussed with the grocers earlier relates to producers' associations, including vegetable growers' associations. Those producers said they have small operations and do not have the resources the big supermarket chains have and are not represented by teams of lawyers.

In the case of systemic issues in particular, that is, issues that arise frequently, those small companies would like to be represented by their association.

I would like to hear your opinion on that. Don't you think that might make things easier? The number of disputes might drop off if there were a dozen producers, for instance, dealing with the same problem. Their association could represent them. That would also help maintain the anonymity of those small producers.

What are your thoughts?

[Diane Brisebois]

Associations can play a very important role, especially those that represent small companies, as you rightly pointed out.

Ms. Proud talked about that last week. The association is there to listen, especially for issues that affect the sector. In the case of a dispute, clearly, the two companies have to work together. It is a confidential contract.

That doesn't mean that a systemic problem cannot be resolved up front. That is actually why we want to make sure that the associations are in contact with Ms. Proud to meet with her and identify the problem and resolve it before it affects small companies.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

That would be ideal.

If the issue is not resolved, can you imagine that a small producer might at least need help from his association to represent him?

[Diane Brisebois]

Definitely. We have always agreed about the association's potential involvement.

As you said earlier, small companies do not have lawyers or the resources that the big chains do. We encourage the associations to provide those services to various members who have persistent problems. It is not impossible. That said, it's up to the company and not the association to comply with the code. So that is part of the negotiation process.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Brisebois.

I have a question for Mr. Stock and I can see that my time is running out.

[Diane Brisebois]

I understand.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Stock, in light of my exchange with Ms. Brisebois, do you as a vegetable producer need your associations to represent you?

[Gordon Stock]

I should clarify. I actually work as a staff member for the association, and I am not a fruit and vegetable grower. Although I do farm myself, it's something much simpler than fruits and vegetables.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

You do represent vegetable growers here though, so the question is for you.

Do you think that is important?

[Gordon Stock]

Yes. What I'll say is that there will be members who I believe will be challenged to bring forward their perspectives through the process and there is a role for associations. I think the role, from my perspective, is not quite clear at this point, and there needs to be some work done for our associations to better understand how we can engage and support our members in the process. It's very important, yes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Stock.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much.

Next, we'll go to the Conservatives.

Mr. Epp, you have five minutes.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you sincerely to all the witnesses for appearing.

Congratulations for 30 years in a very dynamic industry, Madame Brisebois. I'll start with you.

In the first round, the representatives from Loblaws and Metro affirmed that the name and shame powers that the adjudicator has are something that they support. Are you in a position to speak on behalf of your members—I understand that the RCC is not a member of the code, but your members are—about whether there is broad buy-in for that power of the adjudicator to address confirmed violations?

[Diane Brisebois]

Yes, very much so.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you.

That leads into the next question, then.

I know that the dispute resolution mechanism has yet to be finalized, and I understand about not commenting or negotiating on camera, which is what we are right now, but can you, from the retailers' perspective, outline the principles that the retailers are looking for in a dispute resolution mechanism?

[Diane Brisebois]

I would say that they are very similar to those that independent grocers would look for, as well as suppliers. It is clarity. If you're going to enter into a dispute resolution process, it's very important to understand each step and to understand, one, where you end up if the issue is resolved and, two, what happens if the issue is not resolved.

At this point, most of those discussions have taken place. There seems to be consensus, and I would have to say that it's more wordsmithing at this point than anything else, which is why you've heard Mr. Sands and me and others express our positive outlook in regard to January 1.