Evidence of meeting #12 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was innovation.
A video is available from Parliament.
President, Canadian Produce Marketing Association
My answer would be more or less the same as Mr. Charlebois's.
Chief Executive Officer, Agri-Food Innovation Council
I also think there are a lot of things that can be done quickly. Yes, you're right that there are regional and provincial differences in conditions, but we could still coordinate and work together to get things done faster.
I also agree with my colleagues that we shouldn't redo everything. There are great examples internationally, so we in Canada can also move quickly to make some regulatory changes.
In terms of what was asked previously, we put forward a number of recommendations in the document we sent you. I hope it was handed out to you, since it was sent in both official languages last week. I hope you received it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau
Thank you very much.
We'll do two five-minute rounds, with one for the Conservatives and one for the Liberals.
Monsieur Gourde, you have five minutes.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Mr. Charlebois.
You don't know me, but I've been aware of you for a long time because we've been hearing about you through your research for ages.
I have a lot of questions and concerns about the grocery basket assessment. You often talk about the effects of inflation on the grocery basket. However, habits are changing. When the research or study we are conducting on the effects of inflation on the grocery basket is spread out over a 10‑year period, for example, is it always the same grocery basket, meaning a basket that contains the same number of pounds of meat, vegetables, fruit, etc., or does the grocery basket evolve?
It seems to me that Canadians' eating habits are changing based on the price of food. Families have a budget and they tend to stick to it. Sometimes they sacrifice food quality to buy cheaper food.
When the government conducts studies on the effects of inflation on the grocery basket, does it take into account changes in eating habits over months or years? We could conclude that, in 2024, the increase in the price of groceries was 5% or 6%, but if we had taken the same foods into consideration over the past 10 years, perhaps the difference would have been 15% to 20%.
I am concerned that this could distort people's perception of reality.
What do you think, Mr. Charlebois?
Professor, Dalhousie University and Senior Director, Agri-Food Analytics Lab
That's a very good question.
Essentially, there is a battle between consumers and food inflation. For example, when we say that food inflation is currently at 4%, that doesn't mean that people are spending 4% more. Consumers are battling against that 4%. They will compromise on nutritional qualities, especially when it comes to proteins. The items at the meat counter are very expensive, so instead of going to the meat counter, the consumer will choose a can of tuna or a vegetable protein.
We've been monitoring prices very closely for 16 years. We've adapted to consumer behaviour. Every year, we freeze consumer behaviour in September or October to establish a percentage for our forecast for the following year. I don't think Statistics Canada does that. They have roughly the same standards and the same ratios for meat, seafood, baked goods and so on. There aren't really any changes that reflect reality. Conversely, we try to take them into account and inform the public as much as possible.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
However, you agree that, given the price of food right now, dietary habits are changing. The grocery basket tends to contain a larger amount of cheaper food because of the financial reality of Canadian households.
Professor, Dalhousie University and Senior Director, Agri-Food Analytics Lab
Yes. As Mr. Lemaire knows, the market is very frugal right now. As a result, a lot of people will buy store brand products. However, the nutritional value of store brand products is not the same as that of other brand products or fresh products found on the edges of the store, whose prices fluctuate greatly. When consumers become extremely frugal, fluctuations like that scare them.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
Over the past 10 years, the contents of the grocery basket have evolved. People say that Canadians eat more frugally, but unfortunately, they may simply be eating lower-quality food.
Professor, Dalhousie University and Senior Director, Agri-Food Analytics Lab
Yes, that's correct.
I wouldn't say that the content of the food basket has evolved, but it has changed. Consumer behaviour has definitely changed—prices have driven people to make different decisions.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
What is your forecast for the next five years in terms of Canadians' eating habits?
Professor, Dalhousie University and Senior Director, Agri-Food Analytics Lab
It's not so easy to make forecasts, and it's even harder to do so over five years.
Based on my discussions with various distributors, I believe we'll still have a very frugal market next year. Things will continue to be difficult, especially when it comes to access to protein. The price is going up for the whole meat trifecta—beef, chicken and pork—which is rarely seen. That really hurts consumers, because protein accounts for 40% of grocery bills.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau
Thank you very much.
Last, we'll go to Mr. Connors.
You have five minutes.
November 3rd, 2025 / 4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
Thank you.
Mr. Buy, if you remember the question that MP Chatel asked you, could the collaborative work of the agile table that's already in existence work with your agricultural council?
Chief Executive Officer, Agri-Food Innovation Council
I think there are ways to make certain things work between the two. I think this is a good idea. It would need to be looked at a little bit more in detail.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
Okay.
Mr. Lemaire, in your opening remarks, you talked about the challenges of moving produce from province to province. You mentioned how the federal government and the provinces need to work together and need to align, and you spoke about a competitive lens. Now I come from Newfoundland and Labrador. I'd like for you to be able to elaborate on that a bit and, looking at it through the competitive lens, tell us what that means.
President, Canadian Produce Marketing Association
Actually, that's a wonderful question.
I spent some time with Erin from Powell's Supermarket at meetings last week, and the challenges she experiences in just bringing fresh produce from the mainland into Newfoundland.... We have to look at a few key pieces here. I think seasonal trucking weights are something that we need to try to align. That's a good example of spring weights. That changes the size of the trucks that can move across certain provinces. That reduces efficiencies in the model.
Going beyond that, when we start looking at our infrastructure—and Dr. Charlebois did talk a little bit about this—the infrastructure discussion is key: our infrastructure, how we invest in finding regulatory alignment across the country and how we enable investment. The investment in the Montreal port announced by the government is key. The other piece that we have to look at is alignment across all of our other modes of transportation to ensure the connectivity of our country is done in a way that is cost-effective and efficient. If we start building out on that model and start looking at a regulatory model that enables perishable food to be moved in the event of a dispute, like we've seen at the ports, I think we will find a win. When we can't move food, we see food insecurity rapidly increase.
President, Canadian Produce Marketing Association
This is a double-edged sword for industry. I've spoken to some of you about how we were overly consulted in the previous government, and that can be dangerous as well. It has to be an appropriate amount of engagement with the industry to get the necessary input, like we're doing today, but directly with the departments to provide direction on what works and doesn't work. What I noted in my statement is that, with direction from the Prime Minister's Office and the minister in a very tactical, direct way, we saw dramatic shifts on how the bureaucracy moves. In some cases, there are systems that don't change quickly without clear political direction. We've experienced that change in the last five months. We need to continue moving that forward, and it has to be concise, focused and enabling for the bureaucrats to understand they have to act.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
Coming from industry and coming from a small place where agriculture is not that large, sometimes I hear—and it's officially when I was doing some work with the Canadian Federation of Agriculture—that farmers on the ground do not really think that they're being consulted. You said that you were overconsulted for the last little while. Can you explain how the farmers who are actually doing the work are not being consulted?
President, Canadian Produce Marketing Association
There are two things that have to happen. I work closely with Scott Ross and Keith Currie at the Canadian Federation of Agriculture. Through our national organizations, providing a voice to government is key, but you need to get out to the farms. With the strength you have as elected members of Parliament—and I say this more to every urban member of Parliament who is listening to this committee—leave the city, visit a farm and hug a farmer.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau
Thank you to our witnesses.
We'll recess for five minutes and come back soon.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Coteau
I'd like to make a few comments before we start.
For the benefit of the new witnesses, please wait until I recognize you.
We do have a few folks on Zoom. At the bottom of your screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, September 18, the committee is resuming its study on the government's regulatory reform initiative in agriculture and agri-food sector.
As an individual, we have Evan Fraser. We also have the Canadian Federation of Independent Business and the Alberta Beekeepers Commission.
Thank you so much for being here today.
We'll start with Mr. Fraser for five minutes.
