Agriculture Committee on Feb. 24th, 2026

[Sophie Martel]

The research centre in Sainte‑Foy is working on the genetic improvement of perennial plants. I was talking about the effects of freezing and thawing and their ability to withstand unpredictable weather.

The research centre in Sainte‑Foy is certainly fundamental to perennial cultivation. When we talk about perennial crops, we might think of hay, but in a broader sense, I see it as cover crops, where all producers, not just livestock producers, could be impacted by the closure of the Sainte‑Foy research centre. It also affects their knowledge and their ability to broaden that knowledge.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Can you talk a bit about the importance of geographical distribution, among other things, from south to north, in relation to climate change?

In your opinion, how important is it to have research centres located further north in Canada?

[Sophie Martel]

Research centres in northern Canada are becoming essential, because they are facing new pests, even new agricultural practices that are very specific to their environment.

I'm going to talk about Quebec, but it's also the case everywhere else in Canada. As soon as you go to Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean, you start to see different problems, which evolve differently. I would say that this is of paramount importance, both in terms of climate and, I would even dare say, in terms of soil. These are two factors that have a major impact on research. To me, soils differ and the climate differs. It's important to have regional research centres, both for the vitality of the region and for compelling research in these environments. Due to climate change, this is going to become extremely important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Next we'll go to the Bloc Québécois for six minutes.

Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank Ms. Oatway, Mr. Buy and Ms. Martel. Their comments are very topical and in line with what we're advocating, namely a return to the past and renewed funding.

This morning, I was with grain producers, who shared with us a statistic similar to the one presented by Mr. Buy and the Conservatives: Every dollar invested in agriculture yields $32. This is an absolutely fundamental investment that we can't afford to forgo.

Ms. Martel, you may not know this, but I was responsible for the Collectif en formation agricole de l'Abitibi-Témiscamingue from 2017 to 2019. I therefore had a good working relationship with the CETAB+, the Centre d'expertise et de transfert en agriculture biologique et de proximité. If there's one thing you've clearly demonstrated, it's that agricultural research is absolutely crucial. However, the CETAB+ will be subject to budget cuts across the board. It's true that the increased funding for the college and community innovation program, or CCI, one of the most important vehicles for funding applied research in Canada's colleges, CEGEPs and polytechnic schools, will not be renewed.

Can you tell us in detail what impact this will have on an institution like yours?

[Sophie Martel]

Yes, absolutely.

The ICC is a very important program for us, but also for other colleges in Canada. We're in applied research and knowledge transfer. So we're positioned after fundamental research. We work very closely with more than 300 agricultural producers. In my case, it will have an impact on my ability to retain talent on my team and on the quality of the people I can hire, which is quite fundamental. That's one of the first things.

Then it will also affect the quality of the research subsequently conducted on the farm, which enables businesses to be more competitive or more efficient. Therefore, I would even say that it has a direct impact on our ability to take action.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'd like to go back to what my colleague Marianne Dandurand was saying about climate change in the north.

Several years ago, when I was with the Union des producteurs agricoles in Abitibi-Témiscamingue, an Agriclimat study found that the climate in Abitibi-Témiscamingue could resemble that of the Montérégie region or the northeastern United States by 2050, according to realistic scenarios. So it's extremely important that we know our soils and our climate well, particularly in northern regions.

In our region, Abitibi‑Témiscamingue, and in northeastern Ontario, we experienced the closure of the Kapuskasing experimental farm due to budget cuts made by the Harper government in 2015. That had a major impact on my region, because this farm provided us with expertise on clay soils, among other things.

Can you explain the impact that transferring research centres from one place to another has on research? The government tells us that it's no big deal, that we won't lose anything and that it's just buildings it wants to close, but that seems very naive to me.

What do we lose in a transfer?

[Sophie Martel]

As I said earlier, we are losing local expertise and vitality. That much is obvious. It's very important to have a number of stakeholders working on issues. Earlier, the lady from Alberta also talked about the importance of having relevant studies on climate and soil, known as pedology. You have quite unique soils in the north, in Témiscamingue. You have very beautiful clays that I don't have where I live. I work with sands. So, it's clear that our research won't have the same effect, and that's uncontrollable. Where you live, you do research specific to your environment, and that's one thing.

In that regard, I don't know how long the research centre you were talking about has been closed, but one agricultural season often represents a year of research. So having a history of research on the same location is also very valuable. The lady even mentioned the genetic improvement of grains. We've been working on that for a long time, as well as on soil improvement. So it's really important to preserve this history.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

We must also recognize the importance of intellectual property. The research conducted in Quebec City belonged to universities or Agriculture and Agri‑Food Canada.

If the private sector is given more room to fill this gap, what impact would that have on research and innovation?

[Sophie Martel]

I think the private sector has its role to play. That's for sure. We work for producers and for the agri‑food industry. It's important to note that some research isn't really of interest to the private sector, but it may still have quite significant societal implications in Canada. Earlier, I mentioned soil health, biodiversity and improving crop rotation. These are topics that the private sector will not really be interested in because they are not patentable or interesting from an intellectual property standpoint. I'm not saying that these areas, which are important to society, will be abandoned, but the funding allocated to them may dwindle.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

The organic factor is very important. How could the government better support research, innovation and science in the organic field?

[Sophie Martel]

I imagine it's the same for all research centres. They all need funding, and that funding must be stable and predictable.

What we study in organic agriculture, but not just in organic agriculture, is systems. We're not necessarily looking at one single thing; we're looking at a whole system. To do that, we have to look at the big picture, and we have to look at the medium and long terms.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It's the predictability part that's in jeopardy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you.

Next we'll go to the Conservatives for five minutes.

Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Martel, you talked about how the government closed the Sainte-Foy agricultural research and development centre and then the Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures farm, where the government locked the door.

These centres have a tremendous amount of expertise in forage crops, or hay, as you said.

I myself am a farmer. I've farmed hay all my life. When I was young, we cut the hay only once a year. These days, farmers in our region, Beauce, cut hay four times a year. Things have changed a lot. Climate change may have made it possible to harvest a little more, and cultivars are much improved, so we can grow more hay per hectare, which makes farms in our region more profitable.

Right now, we have cultivars that were developed in 2010 and 2015. If the government closes these research centres, what kind of cultivars will be available to us in the 2030s?

It's 2026, but research is being done for cultivars that will be available to the industry in 2030 or 2035. What are we going to lose?

[Sophie Martel]

That's an interesting question, and it underscores the importance of research.

Cultivar improvement is a long-term process. You're right: We're not necessarily going to see the impact of these closures tomorrow or two years from now. We'll see it 10 or 15 years from now, and the impact will be huge. This will impact farm profitability and productivity. I think that's obvious. Cultivars from other places won't have the same impact on our ability to produce in Quebec. I talked about soils and climate earlier. Farms will definitely experience losses in the medium and long terms.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

I'm very disappointed in this decision. This loss of expertise will leave a huge void in the long term. It also creates enormous pressure that could cause forage crops to lose ground as they compete with corn or soybeans.

In many cases, when farms are dismantled, no more hay is grown. Other crops are grown. Hay is extremely expensive in Quebec these days. It costs about $150 to $200 per tonne more than the price of grain. I'm just talking about the equine sector, which I know well because I used to sell hay. A small hay bale sells for $10 in the equine sector. Many Quebeckers who work in this sector will be forced to sell their horses. As you know, horses have a very sentimental value. It will be so sad.

What can be done to fix the situation?

Obviously, we're asking the government to reconsider its decision, but do you see any other solutions?

[Sophie Martel]

This week, I spoke with producers who want to include [Technical difficulty—Editor] base. They would like to include hay in their crop rotation. You're talking about the market. Maybe we need to develop more structured channels for hay to capitalize on it. [Technical difficulty—Editor] There are lots of ways to capitalize on it. It's great in crop rotation. It can even increase yields. We need to change how we structure this market [Technical difficulty—Editor]. We need to capitalize on it.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

There's a technical difficulty affecting two witnesses. This is the first time I've seen this technical difficulty in the House of Commons. It doesn't sound like a microphone issue.

Can you see if it's a technical issue? Is it something on our side? Is the connection preventing us from getting consistent sound?

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

We're looking into it on our side. There doesn't seem to be an issue on our side.

If you have an electronic device near your computer, like a secondary phone, move it away. That can cause interference.

We'll continue, but if it happens again, we'll pause.

I'll back up the time a bit. Please proceed.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, if the witness could repeat her answer, I would appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Just go back to the natural place. We'll add some time.

[Sophie Martel]

You want me to answer again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

If you can, that would be great.

[Sophie Martel]

Mr. Gourde asked about how we can expand the market for perennial crops such as hay. I was saying that, this week, I talked to producers who are looking at ways to develop [Technical difficulty—Editor].