Evidence of meeting #10 for Bill C-11 (41st Parliament, 1st Session) in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
She can make them available for free if she wants to.
Anyway, the point of the matter is that we want a system that makes sense for everybody. We're trying to create a balanced system here. As legislators, it's our responsibility to have an honest debate about things. Sometimes in our passion to portray our side, maybe we reflect the background we come from. Sometimes that gets a little bit fuzzy, Mr. Cash. But in this circumstance, it's quite clear, when you look at the numbers, that the fact of the matter is that there is more compensation being paid today to creators by broadcasters than there was 10 years ago, and it's significantly more.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
No one's saying whether it's too much or not too much. What we're saying is that there needs to be a system that actually makes some sense, a system everybody can understand that compensates for actual value produced and realized, and in this case—
NDP
Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON
It sounds like what you want is a ceiling for artists—an income ceiling for artists.
Conservative
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Not at all. We want to create a situation where creators can get compensated fairly for what they create.
NDP
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
I think I heard Mr. Del Mastro say that if you buy something on an eight-track, you should be able to transfer it onto an iPad.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Because clearly you can't do that because there's a digital lock on it. And I thought maybe he wished he hadn't argued against our proposals in that regard to the digital lock section, in view of what he seemed to be saying, because he seems to be saying two different things. He's saying one thing here when it comes to ephemeral rights and radio, and something very different when it comes to digital locks.
Conservative
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
And I saw that he looked at his BlackBerry shortly after saying that, so I wondered if PMO had sent him an email to ask him what the heck he was doing.
Conservative
NDP
The Chair NDP Glenn Thibeault
Mr. Del Mastro, the Conservatives still have time, so if you'd like to respond, you're more than welcome to.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Sure, I'm happy to.
Mr. Regan is confused, Mr. Chairman, and I'd like to use the time to help clear up the confusion because we can't have people confused at the table.
What I indicated is that people should be able to purchase things in the format they wish to use them in.
Now in this case the radio broadcasters cannot. If Mr. Regan would like to buy a Blu-ray and watch it as a Blu-ray, then he can do that. If Mr. Regan would like to buy a Blu-ray, and hack it and put it onto a video file on his computer, he can't do that, because it has a technical protection measure and we support that because that is a business decision to put a fence around something that they have created.
It may not be popular. People may not choose to purchase something that in fact has a technical protection measure on it, but that is a consumer decision, and the industry, when they put that measure in place, understands this—that the consumer ultimately has the power to purchase or not purchase that specific piece of media. But in this case, the broadcasters know that they need music. That's part of their product. In fact, they pay a lot of money for it. They also contribute to the Canada Music Fund, most handsomely, as a matter of fact, and that goes back and helps Canadian artists as well, through organizations like FACTOR and others.
But what Mr. Regan seems very confused about is the fact that in this case, if consumers wish to purchase something strictly as a digital file, they cannot. Thank you.
NDP
NDP
The Chair NDP Glenn Thibeault
Mr. Nantel, thanks. Sorry.
Now to Mr. Regan, if you have any further conversation.
All right. Seeing no further discussion, I will call the question on NDP-9.
(Amendment negatived)
Moving back to clause 34, any further discussion?
(Clause 34 agreed to on division)
(On clause 35)
Clause 35. Is there any discussion on the clause?
There is an amendment, LIB-10.
Mr. Regan, will you be moving this amendment?
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
I move this amendment, which basically says that not only is an ISP protected in the case where there's a contravention of copyright in a work or subject matter, but that providing the service they provide as Internet service providers does not contravene in this way any other provision of the act.
And if there's a problem with this, I'd like to hear about it from the officials.
NDP
The Chair NDP Glenn Thibeault
Okay, Mr. Regan, I'll now move to Mr. Del Mastro and the Conservatives. You'll have five minutes.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Thank you very much.
To the officials, my understanding is that LIB-10 and LIB-11 in clause 35 deal with the issue of network PVRs, in part. My understanding from previous discussions with officials is that there is nothing in the act that prevents a business-to-business agreement between broadcasters and BDUs to establish network PVRs.
I need an answer that is as clear as you can make it, as to whether or not LIB-10 or LIB-11 are in fact needed for the business relationship to be established between broadcasters and BDUs, to establish network PVRs.
