Bill C-11 Committee on Feb. 29th, 2012

[Jean-François Cormier]

For us, proposed section 29.5 specifically mentions “cinematographic” works. That specifically targets our industry.

What we're asking for in the amendment is that schools and school boards may be exempt from copyright in regard to film, but only if those rights are not available from a collective such as us. If the product already exists, and if the service already exists in the market, as it has for 20 years, then, as the school boards have said, they're willing to continue paying for this. We think a lot of the direction of that section concerns products that aren't easily available or that schools can't find and that we don't distribute—mostly stuff on the Internet.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Fisher or Ms. Hitchon, would you like to comment on that?

[John Fisher]

First of all, I have to say that we were surprised, because we're in touch with the education community on a daily basis in our business, and in their testimony before this committee and on Bill C-32 they said they didn't want not to pay.

When we met with the representatives of the two departments, Industry and Heritage, they could not provide us with an explanation as to why that provision had been inserted. Also, no economic study has been done to determine what the consequences and the outcome would be if that provision were included.

So we're mystified as to why it's there. We think it serves no one's purpose whatsoever.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Can you help me get my head around this idea of “if it's commercially available, it's not an exemption”? I'm trying to figure out what video clips—or whatever—that are on the Internet would not also, somewhere, be commercially available.

[Jean-François Cormier]

Well, I think what he meant before was available from a collective agency.

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

You have less than a minute.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Okay. That's what you're saying.

Is that correct, Mr. Fisher?

[John Fisher]

Yes, that's correct.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

So you're not saying generally...?

[Suzanne Hitchon]

There are trainers out there who do programs and put their stuff up on the Internet. They do it on YouTube, and teachers want to be able to access that resource, but they're afraid they can't, because they don't know if they're violating the copyright law.

I think the point is to free it up so they have access to this rich resource, but not to punish us in the interim, and not to punish the educational community as a whole, because in ten years they're not going to find these resources. It's just about striking the balance between what they want and what it is that we do.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

Thank you, Mr. Regan.

Of the full 15 minutes the committee agreed to, Mr. Lake, you'll have about three minutes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

That's fine, no worries.

I'm going to direct my questions to SARTEC, if I could, and it will be pretty straightforward. In your submission you suggested that for private copying the levies should not be limited to blank audio media but rather should be extended to other media and devices that are now in common use. What media and devices are you talking about?

[Yves Légaré]

I'm talking about MP3 players and any kind of digital reader, in fact.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

An iPod or an iPad would count. What about a computer, a laptop?

[Yves Légaré]

If they are used for the same purpose as an iPad or an iPod, then the answer is yes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Of course most people nowadays, if they have a Mac, for example, would use it to store music and stuff. So you'd say that yes, there should be a levy. How much should those levies be?

[Sylvie Lussier]

We don't know how much. It would have to be determined by la Commission du droit d'auteur du Canada, which would set a fair price for that.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

What would be fair, though? What would you consider fair?

[Sylvie Lussier]

I don't know. I have no idea.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

When the Copyright Board looked at it before, I can't remember.... I believe it was the private copying collective that suggested $75 for a device with over 30 gigabytes, such as an iPod--

[Sylvie Lussier]

No, we've never suggested--

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Point of order. This is misinformation.

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

No, that's debate, unfortunately.

Please finish your question.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I believe that was the amount that was part of the discussion at the time. I think you can go to the Canada Gazette and see it.