Evidence of meeting #5 for Bill C-11 (41st Parliament, 1st Session) in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was copyright.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Each of the witnesses came thinking they were going to get ten minutes, and they got five. Can we just make sure each of them submits their full statement so that we have those for the record?
NDP
The Chair NDP Glenn Thibeault
We have them all. We're just making sure about the translations, Mr. Lake. Everyone will have that opportunity.
I do apologize again for having to cut you down to five minutes, but we want to make the best use of having you here today. That gives the members the opportunity to ask you questions as well. We now have that opportunity.
We're going to the first round of questioning for five minutes. It will be five minutes maximum, members.
We will start with you, Mr. Armstrong.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
I'm going to try to be very quick.
Mr. Cormier, I'll start with you. Can you briefly describe what exactly it is you do and what service you provide to schools? I'm a former principal, so I'm aware. Could you do that very quickly and concisely?
President and General Manager, Audio Ciné Films Inc.
Basically, we are a rights representative for thousands of films—documentaries, etc. Under current copyright laws, educational institutions have to purchase a licence from us to be able to show our products legally. This is what we do with most school boards, schools, and post-secondary institutions across Canada. We issue licences. We provide support materials and after-purchase service, if you will, with almost every institution across Canada. We sell blanket licences, which are mostly for school boards, schools, etc. Usually the fees we charge represent a thousandth of a percent of their overall budgets.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
I want to be clear that you do more than just license films and send them out to schools. You provide educational resources. You develop resources. These are valuable resources, which teachers are asking for. They are curriculum-driven. I just want to be clear on that.
President and General Manager, Audio Ciné Films Inc.
Yes. We provide film guides, etc.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
What are you hearing from the education sector? Have they requested that you will no longer have to license? Is that coming from the education sector? What have you heard from your clients?
President and General Manager, Audio Ciné Films Inc.
What we've heard so far in almost all testimony from various parts of the educational sector is that they haven't asked to be exempt from paying. They have been paying for licences for decades. They have no problem with continuing to pay. Nothing forces these organizations to purchase licences from us if they don't use our products. Our prices have to be accepted by the market. It's something they have indicated they are more than willing to continue to pay for.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
I'm going to move on to Mr. Fisher.
Mr. Fisher, you provide similar services. You create curriculum-driven materials teachers are asking for. Then you send them out and schools purchase them, and you provide the licensing. What would happen to our sector in education if the industry didn't exist to support teachers? What do you think the impact would be on educators and teachers?
John Fisher Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Criterion Pictures
I think I have to speculate as to what would happen. Congress in the United States recommended the elimination of public performance for schools in the United States a number of years ago. That was eventually incorporated into their Copyright Act. As a consequence, most of the major providers and creators of audiovisual material for the classroom—organizations such as Encyclopedia Britannica, American Education Corporation, McGraw-Hill Films, and Learning Corporation of America, which were all companies generating $50 million or $60 million worth of business per year—went out of business. They no longer exist. So they would disappear. All of the jobs would disappear. Of course, there are very few corporations left that produce material specifically for the classroom.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
Great. Thank you.
I'm going to jump to Ms. Hitchon. You briefly touched on the changes you have made to adapt to new technology. Many schools across the country have a wealth of technology that school boards and provinces have invested in to try to meet the needs of today's student and tomorrow's student. What types of changes have you made in your industry to try to supply resources to teachers using this new technology?
President and General Manager, Head Office, Criterion Pictures
We recently spent millions of dollars creating a K-to-12 digital delivery platform to meet those needs. They no longer wanted hard copy. We took all of these programs and correlated them to the curriculum for all provinces. We clipped them. We also added software onto our platform that enabled them to take this content and build lesson plans around it, create tests, and provide students with access at home. So if there is a program they need to view for homework, they could also have a username and password. It's all done over the Internet.
We've recently done the same thing with feature films. We've taken literary adaptations and correlated them to the provincial curriculum standards. We've provided learning guides and teaching resources for those.
That was all to meet the need the educational community presented to us, which they had to have answered in order to go into the next century.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
By developing all these digital resources this is saving the school boards money, I would assume?
President and General Manager, Head Office, Criterion Pictures
Absolutely.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
Can you talk about the savings?
President and General Manager, Head Office, Criterion Pictures
A 16-millimetre print back in the day was $1,500. Now they have access to these 25,000 audiovisual clips for $795 a school per year, unlimited access.
Conservative
President and General Manager, Head Office, Criterion Pictures
We source all that for them.
Conservative
NDP
The Chair NDP Glenn Thibeault
Thank you very much, Mr. Armstrong.
I'm now moving to Mr. Benskin, for five minutes.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Thank you.
I guess this is to these two businesses here. You've made it quite clear that the bill in its present form is a threat to your business, to your existence. What kind of amendment would you be looking at to stave that off as far as this bill is concerned?
Chief Executive Officer, Head Office, Criterion Pictures
We think there's a simple solution.
NDP
The Chair NDP Glenn Thibeault
Sorry, Mr. Fisher, I have to ask for unanimous consent. It seems that the bells have started, so that's our Pavlovian theory for us to get to the House of Commons and vote.
Can I have unanimous consent from the committee members to continue on for 15 minutes into the bells? Do I have that?