Bill C-11 Committee on March 1st, 2012

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I understand that. All I'm trying to get is confirmation that the right music and the right musical choices are a component of that success.

[Richard Gray]

They are a component of that success.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

I want to move on to Mr. McCarty.

We've heard talk of iPod taxes, and so forth. The physical element of any MP3 player is a series of inventions, creations that are put together and patented by either individuals or companies, that are put together to make this unit work. Right?

[Michael McCarty]

Correct.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

And patents, we can agree, are copyrights.

[Michael McCarty]

They're a form of it, yes.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

True.

So why is it, do you think, that people would be bothered by paying for the content that goes onto it, if they're already paying for the rights of all the components that make up the unit?

[Michael McCarty]

Intellectual property is an odd thing in the first place. It's invisible to most people as they go throughout their daily lives. When it gets brought up to them, it's a unique concept to them and they usually don't like the idea of paying for it. If you knew that $5 of your iPhone went to a certain patent embedded in the iPhone, you probably would resent it. So just because it's being brought up here today, that's why people resent it.

The reason the iPhone will pay for the patent is because the law says they have to. The reason they won't give the music industy any part of their economic value chain is because the law says they don't have to.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Benskin and Mr. McCarty.

Now we're moving to Mr. Lake, for five minutes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I have to go quickly here, so it's a quick question for Ms. Woods and Mr. Gray.

You paid $64 million in 2011 for the broadcast right and $21 million for the ephemeral right, basically. That totals about $85 million. Before the $21 million, before there was any fee paid there, what were you paying for broadcast?

[Tanya Woods]

It would have been the right relating to the performance.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

What was the amount?

[Tanya Woods]

I'm sorry, I don't know it off the top of my head. But I can get back to you on that.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

It would have been less than $64 million, would it?

[Tanya Woods]

I'd have to verify it to be fair.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay. I suspect that to be the case. I believe it's probably in the neighbourhood of $60 million, if I'm accurate, which would mean that the $21 million over the last five years is just simply completely on top of that.

To Mr. Cash's point, he made a good point. He said why don't you just pay it? It's not that much, why don't you just pay it?

Mr. Cash, for you $100 isn't too much, so why don't you just give me $100--no reason, but why don't you just give me $100, because it's not much for you?

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Point of order.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Could I answer the question? No?

I'll talk to you after about that.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

The point is--

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

Please don't touch the mikes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I'm good now.

It seems to me that this broadcast mechanical right is a phantom right, Mr. McCarty. Here's what I mean by that. It's paid not for the value actually provided by a musical--

[Michael McCarty]

Sure it is.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

[Technical difficulty--Editor]

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

Maybe if you move to another spot, would that be helpful?