Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) Committee on June 7th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Good afternoon. This is the Legislative Committee on Bill C-2, meeting number 20, which is televised. The orders of the day are, pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, April 27, 2006, Bill C-2, An Act providing for conflict of interest rules, restrictions on election financing and measures respecting administrative transparency, oversight and accountability.

Monsieur Sauvageau.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I think we should sit from 3:30 to 5:30 p.m. A vote is scheduled after that. I also believe the whips of our respective parties have discussed matters unrelated to this committee and that, following that discussion and the one I had during the question period, it was agreed that we would not come back after the vote was held.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Monsieur Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Actually, our whip told us of no such agreement to not return after the votes. He told us it was at our discretion. I understand there is an event this evening that is of some importance to some members of the committee and it would not be fair to ask them to miss that particular event. We're lucky on this side of the House to have an event of our own that did not clash with the committee's schedule and we were able to attend it. So in the interest of fairness and goodwill, we think other members should be allowed to attend theirs. So on this side, we would be willing to give our consent to not returning after the vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Owen.

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Liberal members are in agreement. I think it's a very gracious statement by Mr. Poilievre, and we would agree.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

There appears to be agreement, so we will sit until the bells start at 5:30. We'll proceed until about that time.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you very much to all committee members.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

The chair would like to read a very brief statement to the members.

I met with the clerk and the staff this morning. It's a very complicated bill, and I'm looking to the committee to help me, as chair, go through this rather complicated procedure. I'd like to read a brief statement to clarify what I believe is the procedure we should follow. If the committee members don't like it, presumably they'll come up with something else. If they like it, we'll proceed.

We're now about to embark on the next stage of our examination of Bill C-2, the detailed clause-by-clause consideration of the text of this legislative initiative. I'm told that there are 208 proposed amendments so far.

In accordance with Standing Order 75(1), clause 1 of the bill, the short title, would be postponed until the end of our examination.

Clause 2, on the other hand, is something that we need to look at. We need to spend some time on it, and I'd like to make a statement as to how the chair intends to proceed.

Clause 2 contains the new Conflict of Interest Act, which has some 66 proposed sections. Other clauses in Bill C-2 also relate directly to clause 2. For example, clause 4 contains a consequential amendment to the Canada Post Corporation Act.

In order for us to proceed in a cogent fashion and consider all amendments that have an impact on one another, I will proceed to propose all such amendments before putting the question on clause 2. This means that the amendments to clause 2, clause 3, subclause 3(1), clause 28, and clause 38 should be considered and voted on before we vote on clause 2.

I'm proceeding in this fashion so that this very complex bill will be considered in a coherent manner and so that any decisions taken by the committee are being consistently applied throughout those clauses of the bill that are linked together. In this way, we will complete our study with a bill that accurately reflects the committee's decisions.

Once again, I intend to call one by one for debate each amendment in our package that relates to clause 2, clause 3, subclause 3(1), clause 28, and clause 38. Then, once all those amendments are decided, I would put the question on clause 2.

The manner of voting would then proceed as follows: the vote on clause 2 will apply to clauses 4 to 38, subclauses 108(1) and 108(2), and clause 227. If clause 2 is agreed to, a separate vote is needed on clause 3. If clause 2 is negatived, the vote applies to clause 3.

This is a great thing, isn't it? The reason for this voting pattern is that a number of clauses are all dependent on clause 2. That's the reason I'm going through all this.

The chair is proposing this manner of proceeding after consulting the legislative clerks working on this bill. If members wish to have a further explanation on how this process has been elaborated, I'll ask the clerk to provide some more detail. This procedure is being proposed as the most efficient manner of considering all of the amendments, which are inexorably intertwined in a most complex piece of legislation.

Mr. Sauvageau, I think, is first, and then Ms. Jennings.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I would be lying if I said I understood your remarks. I'd simply like to propose that we all start with the same document. Generally, when we don't proceed in that manner, we wind up not understanding each other. I propose that we take the big binder and that we proceed page by page. By starting with everyone on the same page, we'll arrive at the same end.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

And that would be the same thing for the bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We will do that, sir. I'm suggesting we start on page 4.

Madam Jennings.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Chair, like other colleagues around the table, I understood clearly what you said; however, as the work goes on, I'm not going to remember anymore how the way I vote on a particular article or amendment is going to affect some other clause that might be 20 down the line. I would ask, if possible, that the statement you just read, which clearly and succinctly pointed out the procedure and the impacts of votes on particular amendments affecting particular clauses, be distributed to each member around this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I have no problem with that, absolutely. It's currently in English, and it will have to be translated, and I'll be pleased to do that.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

That's going to take how long?

[An hon. member]

One week.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Does anybody have any comments on that question? I don't know. We'll do it as soon as possible. In my estimation, unless there's a surprise—which seems to happen in this place—we will be on clause 2 for some time today.

We'll get it to you today. Is that all right?

I'll give you the statement, and it will be quite clear as to—and of course, we've only gone to clause 2. There may be more exciting moments.

Does anyone else have anything to say before we start?

Then we will proceed on page 4, which is a government motion.

(On clause 2)

Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

This is a technical amendment: that Bill C-2, in clause 2, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 2 on page 3, with the following:

Ex-titulaire de charge publique qui, pendant son

We have some technical experts here, if we want to understand the importance thereof.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Sauvageau.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm going to surprise my colleague and, in spite of everything, friend, Mr. Poilievre, by suggesting, in order to expedite the process, that we not systematically speak to each amendment. For example, if on page 4 no one has anything to say, then we'll say nothing.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Bravo! I need lots of good news from this committee.

(Amendment agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We will move to page 5, which is another government amendment.

Is the committee agreed?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

You can assume that I'm the mover of government amendments.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're going to move to the next amendment, on page 5.1, which is from Mrs. Jennings.

Mrs. Jennings.