Evidence of meeting #5 for Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
4:50 p.m.
As an Individual
It is a fair approach, but since you've brought up the tribunal, I also believe that there should be some non-judicial members on that tribunal who bring a different perspective, rather than just a legal perspective, to the situation.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
That's a fair point. I think the advantage of having judges is that they are unimpeachably independent.
4:50 p.m.
As an Individual
And I didn't say not to have them; I was saying in addition to.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay, that's a fair point. Maybe the committee will want to examine the possibilities for other people.
I'd like to turn it over to Mr. Lukiwski now, if he has any questions to add to that.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
I want to explore a little.
Thank you very much, Mr. Cutler. This is the first time I've had an opportunity to meet you. I'll try to tell you how proud I was of what you've done in the past when we're off-line.
I just want to address your comment that your concern is really that the reprisal is still there, because I think it's very important. You can blow the whistle, or someone can blow the whistle, and the management or the party that you've blown the whistle on can bring reprisal against you and there's a disconnect. You can't prove that the reason they are harassing, haranguing, or bringing reprisal against you is because you can't connect the two.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
What would you suggest? How do you solve that?
4:50 p.m.
As an Individual
My understanding is that there is legislation in either the U.S. or in the world that covers that, so it can be legislated into law that the burden of proof shifts.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
So you're suggesting that's really all it would take?
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I'm afraid I can't. I'm not a lawyer. I can tell you the need; I can't tell you how to word it.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
But you're confident in your own right that this alone--the shift of burden of proof from one to the other--would take care of all the concerns you have.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Okay. Thank you very much.
Mr. Petit might have a question, Chair, if there's time left.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Cutler, I don't know you either, but, after comparing Ms. Gualtieri's testimony and yours, a question arises in my mind. You are, from what I understand, all members of the public service, and all federal government employees have a union or professional association.
When one of you is dismissed, does your union support you or does it simply abandon you?
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I'll have to speak more in generalities for a number of other people who are involved with whistle-blowing.
The unions are a little bit erratic on this situation because they support some whistle-blowers more than others. In my particular case my union supported me tremendously. That may or may not be the case in everybody's situation, but I did get good support.
The other thing that should be noted is that over time things have evolved. Whistle-blowing was something nobody knew, nobody had heard about, 10 to 15 years ago, to the extent they hear about it now. Joanna and I didn't have anybody to talk to at that time; we were absolutely isolated. At least now we can phone each other and others phone us. People have alternatives now, which they didn't have, and they don't always trust their union even. They have to have somebody they can go to and somebody they trust, and trust is a word I use an awful lot.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Benoît Sauvageau Bloc Repentigny, QC
I thought we said that, after 40 minutes, with unanimous consent, we could...
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Benoît Sauvageau Bloc Repentigny, QC
We had a gentleman's agreement, as it were, that we would have a second round of 10 minutes if other members had questions to ask. I therefore ask for unanimous consent.
