Evidence of meeting #6 for Bill C-27 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dangerous.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Muise  Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernard Patry

Good morning everyone.

Welcome to the Legislative Committee on Bill C-27. This is meeting 6. Pursuant to the Order of Reference of Thursday, April 5, 2007, we are studying Bill C-27, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (dangerous offenders and recognizance to keep the peace).

We have the pleasure of having Mr. John Muise, the director of public safety for the Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness, as a witness this afternoon.

Welcome, Mr. Muise. We're awaiting your introductory remarks. Go ahead for ten minutes, please.

June 13th, 2007 / 3:35 p.m.

John Muise Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

Thank you very much, Mr. Patry, Mr. Dupuis, and members of the committee, for this opportunity to testify on this important public safety matter.

My name is John Muise. I'm the director of public safety at the Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness. For those of you I haven't met before, I'm a retired police officer, having just last year wrapped up 30 years as a police officer in the Toronto Police Service.

During the last six or seven of those years, I was a seconded member of Ontario's Office for Victims of Crime, an arm's-length advisory agency to the provincial government. We provide advice on public safety, criminal justice reform, and support for crime victims to a number of attorneys general and other members of cabinet.

The CCAA is a non-governmental charitable organization that has been in place since 1993. It has tried to raise awareness about the true cost of neglect through its support of the victims of child abuse. Based in Newmarket, Ontario, north of Toronto, the CCAA is powered by a committed group of staff and volunteers, providing support to 70 partner agencies. Whether it's fulfilling a child's dream wish, assisting crime victims, developing abuse prevention programs and resources, or advocating publicly for legislative change—that's what I do—CCAA is committed to ending abuse.

A few years ago, the CCAA received a government grant to go around the province of Ontario—where I first met them, actually—to conduct a review of round tables to get a sense of how we could better improve the criminal justice system in order to enhance public safety and protect children. When they went around the province, they spoke to 150 front-line criminal justice professionals, crime victims, abuse survivors, and other stakeholders.

From this, a report was completed. It was named the Martin's Hope report in memory of Martin Kruze, an adult survivor. He was an innocent child victim of the Maple Leaf Gardens sexual abuse scandal. In a courageous move, Martin publically disclosed the abuse he had suffered at the hands of his perpetrator. Convictions were subsequently registered for numerous child sex abuse offences, but just four days after one of the accused was sentenced to just two years less a day in a reformatory, Martin tragically took his own life. Although it was too late for Martin, the sentence of the offender was later increased to five years on appeal.

This proved to be the turning point for the CCAA. They did their review, and out of it came the Martin's Hope report, with 60 recommendations for change—39 directed at the federal government, and 21 at the Ontario provincial government. The report was released in November 2004 at Toronto police headquarters.

We welcome the opportunity to provide these submissions. As indicated in the preface, CCAA's Martin's Hope report makes 60 recommendations. Included in the report are recommendations with respect to dangerous offenders, long-term offenders, and section 810 orders, or recognizance to keep the peace.

Seven of the recommendations in our report have relevance, and we have reprinted them in a brief that I provided to the clerk, Mr. Dupuis, electronically last night. I suspect once it is translated, it will be made available to you. I'm relying on that brief today.

Three recommendations in particular have specific applicability to the amendment proposed in this bill; several others are ancillary, and we have included them in the brief.

Our recommendation 8-5 was that the federal government amend sections 810.2 and 810.1 of the Criminal Code to extend the duration of the order for up to five years, also providing for a process whereby the person required to enter into the recognizance can seek a court review of the need for continuing or varying the order on an annual basis.

We also made a recommendation 8-6 to include specific conditions in the recognizance orders, including residing at an approved location; where necessary, residing in a community facility; and complying with electronic monitoring.

One other recommendation that is specific to this bill is 8-9, and our recommendation was that the federal government amend section 753.1, the dangerous offender provisions of the Criminal Code, to ensure that the court takes special notice of any pattern of repetitive behaviour by the offender of violating conditions of a court order, including any kind of conditional release, including long-term offender releases, and for the court to take special notice where those violations resulted in direct victimization.

As you can see in that recommendation, the CCAA's proposed amendment would require judges to take special notice of any repetitive behaviour. We are heartened that an amendment of this kind with respect to violations of long-term orders is being proposed by certain parliamentarians, including members of this committee, and we would encourage this committee and its members to pursue an amendment of this nature either now, as part of this bill, or in the future.

We note that some provincial Attorneys General have called for an amendment of this nature, and additionally that the Honourable Rob Nicholson, Minister of Justice, in his testimony before this committee, indicated that his department is actively exploring this possibility.

Several of the participants, during our round table, had originally called for a “three strikes and you're in” amendment, whereby three serious crimes that resulted in serious time would result in an automatic dangerous offender designation. To be frank, we hadn't thought of a reverse onus provision as set out in Bill C-27, so the recommendation that I just read to you, as set out in 8-9, was what we felt was an appropriate fallback, consistent with section 1 of the charter. We hadn't considered the reverse onus provision as contemplated in this bill, so our compliments for the creativity displayed by this government and the Department of Justice in crafting this particular suggested amendment.

For the CCAA, amending the dangerous offender legislation is simple. We hope to expand the reach of the legislation to capture more dangerous offenders than are currently designated as such and, of course, to do it in a way that would pass constitutional muster.

It is our position that the section 1 charter justification for the amendment proposed in Bill C-27 could come from the Oakes case, Supreme Court of Canada, 1986--I don't think it's a case that's been referenced yet before this committee, I'm not sure--wherein the court stipulated that the measures used must be fair and not arbitrary, proportionate to the objective, and ultimately the least intrusive to accomplish the objective.

Let's look at those words in the context of Bill C-27.

Is it fair? Bill C-27 defines a narrow set of serious offences, primary designated offences, where the offender has been convicted twice already, sentenced to federal time on both occasions, and is now being sentenced for a third time for another primary designated offence. This is serious enough. Most, if not all, of these offenders will have long records that often include many more convictions. The CCAA believes that Bill C-27 in this regard passes the fairness test.

Is it proportionate? The goal of the legislation is to incarcerate indefinitely offenders who pose a danger to society. The bill, according to the justice department, would put approximately 25 more offenders per year into this process, possibly doubling the current 25 offenders estimated, more or less. Out of a population of approximately 30 million people, half of whom are men--and men are the people who are declared dangerous offenders--this is but a tiny sliver of the population. It is also a tiny sliver of the criminal population, and indeed, the inmate population. The primary designated offence list ensures that no pizza slice thief will get caught up in this measure.

Is it arbitrary, and does it serve the principle of least restrictive intrusive measure? If the reverse onus provision led to automatic dangerous offender status, much like a “three strikes and you're in” law, then one might be able to make that case. In our opinion, the safeguard in Bill C-27 is the fact that subclause 3(2) treats this proposed amendment the same way as the existing dangerous offender legislation, wherein the onus is placed on the judge to decide if the offender could be managed in, for instance, a long-term offender setting. Therefore, I believe the principle as set out in the Johnson case, that the judge must consider less restrictive measures if appropriate, applies to this amendment.

In addition, the Mack case confirms that proof beyond a reasonable doubt only applies with respect to the issue of guilt or innocence of the accused, and in the Lyons case, the right to be presumed innocent doesn't apply with regard to dangerous offender hearings. These men are, after all, already guilty.

Who are these offenders who might be captured? For the most part, these offenders will have numerous and varied convictions, likely over a long number of years, with the large majority of them being sex offenders.

A recent case that has been in the news, and for which much of his criminal history is a matter of public record, is the Paul Douglas Callow case. Mr. Callow is known also as the balcony rapist.

Mr. Callow has a record dating back to the early 1970s that includes a number of convictions for property and violent crimes, including break and enter and assault. Mr. Callow also has a conviction for loitering by night, or peeping.

He has a rape conviction, which as most of you know is a historic conviction for sexual assault involving penetration. It would be included as a primary designated offence—so that's number one—for which he was sentenced to four years in prison. It is an offence for which he was subsequently recommitted as a mandatory supervision parole violator, now known as statutory release.

Finally, he was sentenced in 1987 for five counts of sexual assault with a weapon, which is primary designated offence applicable, and he received a total of 20 years in prison for those five convictions. In light of the danger posed, he was held until he had served every last day of his sentence, with release when he reached warrant expiry in February of this year. Since his release, he has been on a section 810.2 order, and very much in the news.

There are more than just a few people wondering why this offender has not already been declared a dangerous offender, but he hasn't been. The next time he commits another sexual assault, which would be an applicable primary designated offence, the reverse onus provision of Bill C-27 in his particular case would kick in.

I think that's a good thing. The CCAA believes this would be entirely appropriate. We believe Mr. Callow is fairly typical of the kind of offender who would be captured by this legislation.

What about the provision regarding recognizance to keep the peace of Bill C-27? As was detailed earlier in my presentation, CCAA has called for both an extension of the time period and for Parliament to identify in statute the kinds of conditions that are appropriate for use in crafting these orders. Our experience with the kinds of offenders placed on these orders, particularly sex offenders and child sex abuse offenders, led us originally to recommend in our Martin's Hope report a period of five years, rather than the two years that was proposed, with the opportunity for the subject of the order to return and have the order shortened or changed if he no longer posed a danger to the community or if the danger lessened. In addition, we suggested a number of specific conditions to include in the statute, with electronic monitoring as one of those.

We are very satisfied with the specificity of the list of conditions as proposed and see no requirement for change. When one considers that these orders are for the most part reserved for offenders like Paul Callow—and wouldn't it be nice if he had an electronic monitoring bracelet on—including a broader range of conditions, particularly electronic monitoring, could, like the dangerous offender portion of this bill, have a positive impact on public safety.

It is our understanding that significant support exists for this section of Bill C-27 at this committee and amongst parliamentarians. For that reason, we will not dwell on its legislative or constitutional validity.

In conclusion, the CCAA supports Bill C-27 as written. We believe it is reasonable and proportionate and will enhance public safety. As we have previously recommended, a breach of a judicial order, including long-term offender orders, should be a factor for which a judge should take special notice in determining whether to declare someone a dangerous offender.

We certainly welcome the conversation that has been had at this committee and elsewhere about making that a potential trigger to bring somebody back before a judge to be declared a dangerous offender. We are heartened that you share that view. Again, we would encourage you, either as a complementary addition to this bill, or in a future bill, to consider this sort of amendment, but not as a replacement for the section as written.

As for the length of the so-called section 810 orders, we would urge you to consider a five-year term, up from the two currently proposed.

Either way, it is the position of the CCAA that Bill C-27 should pass, and although we welcome amendments that strengthen the bill, they shouldn't slow its passage or compromise its integrity by inserting the discussed triggering amendment to replace the current reverse onus amendment.

Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to your questions.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernard Patry

Thank you very much, Mr. Muise.

We'll start

with Mr. Bélanger.

Mr. Bélanger, you have seven minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Incidentally, I'd like to point out that my colleagues in the House are debating a bill that was introduced by the government. They will be joining us later.

Welcome, Mr. Muise, and thank you for your presentation. I'm anxious to read the brief you filed. It was hard for me to follow you: you referred to many numbers and figures. I'm going to limit myself to questions of a slightly more general nature, but first I'd like to have a little more background.

You said you received a grant a few years ago to conduct a study. Could you be more specific: when did you receive it and from which government? Was it the government of Ontario or the government of Canada?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

John Muise

It was the Government of Ontario that provided the grant to the Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness. It was a grant from their victims' justice fund. They give out money on a yearly basis, usually for one-off projects. This was project money to conduct this review around the province of Ontario, because it was an Ontario grant; to speak to people on the front lines of the criminal justice system, crime victims and survivors; and then to prepare a report and submit it. And that's what the Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness did.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

When was this grant awarded to you?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

John Muise

I didn't get the grant; it was given to the CCAA. I'm just guessing now that they received it around 2002 or 2003. I think it was in 2003, because they went around the province in 2003-04, released the report--

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

What I am trying to find out, Mr. Muise, is whether the grant was made to you by the present or previous government of Ontario.

3:50 p.m.

Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

John Muise

The grant was initially provided by the previous government; the report was released by the current government.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Thank you.

Do you know whether the government of Ontario acted on that report?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

John Muise

The Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness wrote a letter on November 20, 2004, the day after the report was released, and the CCAA received a response in March 2006 responding to the provincial recommendations.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

What did that response say?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

John Muise

I'll paraphrase, but.... I'll give an example so you can better understand.

One of the recommendations was to fix how victims were served by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board in the province of Ontario. The response that the Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness received was that they're conducting a review and that they are trying to fix the system. Subsequent to that, and independent from it, the ombudsman of Ontario announced--

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Would you be able to send us a copy of the letter and of the response?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

John Muise

That's something I could speak to the executive director at the Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness about and see if it was appropriate.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

You said a number of interesting things in your report, but what struck me is that you said you had not thought of the reverse onus as an option. Could you tell us exactly why? It was a notion that was around at the time, perhaps not in Canada, but elsewhere in the world. Why is the reverse onus an option that you did not select?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

John Muise

Well, I have to tell you that there are always people on the front lines coming up with recommendations for change.

Certainly, I'm a person who is involved in those issues. Whether right or wrong about the right way to go about it, I certainly keep my nose to the ground in terms of looking at all these things and trying to determine the best way to change the criminal justice system to better enhance public safety.

I first heard of the provision in Bill C-27 when the bill was released. I can tell you that when the round tables were done, the people at the round tables were saying that they thought a “three strikes and you're in” law was a good way to do it, but the CCAA couldn't write that recommendation because it understood that there would be problems in terms of section 1 of the charter.

What the CCAA did was suggest a recommendation--and it's included in the report--that a judge take special notice of repetitive violations of judicial orders, including long-term offender orders. We felt that would withstand the scrutiny of the charter.

But I have to say that I had never heard about reverse onus in terms of dangerous offender legislation until the legislation was introduced. I was quite impressed.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

If I understood correctly, your organization did not select that option because it did not expect it would pass the Charter test.

3:55 p.m.

Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

John Muise

It was that an automatic “three strikes and you're in” would not be charter-proof. For instance, if you committed one robbery, two robberies, three robberies, that would be three strikes, and you'd be in as a dangerous offender. Our organization realized that might not withstand section 1 charter scrutiny.

The position we took in the Martin's Hope report, our fallback, was the one we felt could be included in the dangerous offender legislation to allow for more dangerous offenders ultimately to be declared.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

At our fourth meeting, the representative of the Canadian Police Association said this: Currently, applications for Dangerous Offender Designation are infrequent, as Crown Attorneys perceive the thresholds and onus to be high.

Do you share that opinion?

3:55 p.m.

Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

John Muise

Do I share the opinion that the threshold to declare a dangerous offender is high? Yes.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernard Patry

Thank you very much.

Ms. Freeman.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC

I'm going to share my time with my colleague.

Good morning, Mr. Muise.

You said you had made three recommendations. In the first, the purpose of which is to ensure that the peace is kept, you recommend that orders be extended for up to five years. However, we were already extending from 12 months to two years. Can you give us more of an explanation of the reasons for your recommendation?

3:55 p.m.

Director, Public Safety, Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness

John Muise

Thank you. It's a good question.

There are two reasons. The first reason is that the section 810.2 orders are given to very dangerous offenders, generally. They go to warrant expiry date, and there is nothing else to control them. Most of those who get these orders are men like Paul Callow. He's a good example because we all know about him. They are often just like him. We know, based on their records, that their past behaviour is a very good indicator of potential future criminal or bad behaviour. They don't suddenly, after a year, stop being potential sex offenders.

This is only part of it. It should always be hard work to put these kinds of orders on offenders, because after all, you are limiting their rights, but in light of the effort that goes into crafting these orders by the police and the crown attorney's office, coupled with the fact that we know they don't suddenly stop being sex offenders or potential sex offenders after a year, we felt that five years was an appropriate length of time.

Are we satisfied that it's been increased from one year to two years? Yes. Would we be more satisfied if the committee recommended to Parliament that it be changed from two years to five years? Of course we would.