Evidence of meeting #24 for Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Laurie Hawn
We'll go to Mr. Godfrey, and then I have a suggestion, unless he is going to make it.
Liberal
John Godfrey Liberal Don Valley West, ON
First of all, on the substantive point, we'll take any reasonable suggestion. We're not crazy. We may be, but that's another issue.
If four years makes sense instead of one year, and if Mr. Warawa thinks we can be more ambitious, fine, but something in that zone. We'll take a friendly amendment on that point.
To nail the second point down, my understanding in a practical way of what the second part, proposed subsection (4), means is that if in, let's say, some American state they have a higher standard for appliances than they do in Canada currently, so that in effect Canada might be a dumping ground for the lower standard appliances, we would examine the standards for specific products and go with the higher one because there's a precedent established and there are jurisdictions in North America that say, we will not take toasters that use beyond a certain amount of energy. That's my understanding of what we're doing and that's in line with what we can do.
Director General, Office of Energy Efficiency, Department of Natural Resources
Correct.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Laurie Hawn
What I'm going to suggest, because we have a friendly amendment from Monsieur Bigras and what I think will come to be a friendly amendment with respect to the timeline, is that we suspend for a couple of minutes and get heads together. As well, there's a problem with the French translation. And then we would come back as quickly as possible. We should be able to do that in a few minutes.
We stand suspended for the moment.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Laurie Hawn
Okay, we're back in business.
Mr. Godfrey, are you the man of the moment here?
Liberal
John Godfrey Liberal Don Valley West, ON
I've done some consultation, and I think on the time issue we would amend new subsection 20(3) to say “the Governor in Council shall make best efforts to make regulations”, and so on, “on energy consumption in Canada within three years”.
That means that if, as I understand from having some informal chats with the department, they're unable to because the others can't keep up with them or they don't have the resources to respond to this new burden of work, there has to be an explanation for why they can't do it within three years.
So we make it more ambitious than the four years, which the department was asking for, for the original body of work, because we're adding to the body of work, but we're recognizing that we don't want to put them into an impossible situation. That was a suggestion that came from talking to various folks. So I'll make a friendly amendment, if that's possible.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I've just heard it once, so I've never had an opportunity to look at it, but if you look at the wording of it, it sounds like you're using best efforts to make regulations. I think what you want to do is change the best efforts to within three years.
I don't have it in front of me, but it sounds like—
Conservative
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
But is “best efforts” before the regulations, or is it before the three years?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Laurie Hawn
Allow me to read it, and then see if you have any questions.
The new subsection 20(3) would say, “the Governor in Council shall make best efforts to make regulations within three years”, and I'm going to add Mr. Bigras' amendment, “in collaboration with the provinces, establishing energy efficiency standards for all energy-using products”, etc.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I think it should be “best efforts within three years”, but it's arguable on both points.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Laurie Hawn
That's what I thought I said.
Mr. Godfrey, did I read that as you intended?
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
You don't need to read it again, Mr. Chair.
I'm not trying to be picky on the English language, or as a litigator and somebody who has interpreted statutes for years, but “best efforts to make regulations within three years”? Do you understand what I'm saying? With the “best efforts to make regulations”, they're going to use their best efforts to make regulations. Are they going to make them in three years? The “best efforts” is not to make regulations; they're ordered to make regulations. “Best efforts within three years” is—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Laurie Hawn
Would you prefer “shall make best efforts within three years to make regulations”?
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Absolutely. The best efforts should be the time period, not the regulations.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Laurie Hawn
Okay, let me read that, then. Proposed subsection 20(3) would say:
The Governor in Council shall make best efforts within three years to make regulations in collaboration with the provinces, establishing energy efficiency standards for all energy-using products
Monsieur Bigras, c'est correct? Do you want me to do it again?
Bloc
Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
I would like to attempt a friendly amendment to subsection (4). I would perhaps replace the words “the levels of energy consumption“ by “the levels of energy efficiency for energy-using products“.
The subparagraph would therefore read as follows:(4) The standards referred to in subsection (3) shall be reviewed by the Governor in Council at least once in every three years to ensure that the energy efficiency levels for energy-using products are at least equivalent to the levels set by the most stringent standards applicable in other jurisdictions in North America.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Laurie Hawn
I respect that. Can we deal with proposed subsection 20(3) first, please?
I just want to make sure Monsieur Bigras understands proposed subsection 20(3).
Bloc
Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chairman, this would ensure that we are reviewing the manufacturing standards rather than the levels of energy consumption. That would already give me some comfort.