Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) Committee on March 29th, 2007

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

It is a pleasure to take the floor in this committee as it considers Bill C-30. I am replacing one of my colleagues who was unable to be here today.

I must say that with all those changes, I no longer recognize the bill that was introduced by my colleagues at the beginning of your study, and this concerns me greatly. We had a very good bill that aimed at improving air quality and the health of Canadians.

Just thinking that Liberals again want to implement a carbon tax... This would not be very helpful. It would be just one more tax imposed on Canadians. A tax has never improved our environment and even less the air we breathe. What can improve our environment are the combined efforts of all members of this committee and of all Canadians in order to consume less energy, less fuel.

We can reduce our fuel consumption by using more fuel- efficient cars and using public transit as much as possible. When I travel between my riding and Ottawa, I see 90 percent of people riding alone in their cars and all going into the same direction. We could promote car pooling. These are all actions that will bring about changes.

Our first task is to improve air quality and this should be our major concern. We should make use of new sources of energy, especially renewable energy. In Quebec, we have hydro power but we must also develop wind energy and biofuels. Every time we replace 1 percent of the fossil energy we consume by a less polluting renewable energy, we will improve our quality of life and our environment. We will have to get there 1 percent at a time but each step will bring us closer to our goal. I believe all members of this committee have the same goal, that of improving our environment.

This is why, Mr. Chairman, I have a problem with all these amendments. From the beginning, the ultimate goal of Bill C-30 has always been to improve the health of Canadians. In order to achieve this, we need cleaner air. I am very concerned and I would like the cooperation of the members opposite in order to pass our Bill C-30.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Mr. Manning.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to make a few comments on the preamble of Bill C-30, if I could.

Certainly for a rookie here, it's been quite the experience since we began this process some weeks ago. Our main goal as a committee, I think, was to ensure that Canadians had clean air, and in order to address the concerns we have in Canada--and I believe that Canada wants a clean, healthy environment--in order to achieve that goal, we need a strong economy.

I have some concerns with what has transpired over the past couple of weeks, and certainly in the preamble we're talking about at the present time. We can call it what we like; we've had many adjectives used. We have, without a doubt, put forward a carbon tax on industry in this country, and from my point of view that's a backward step. I think we've created a problem here for the advancement of what we all believed was the purpose of our coming together here--to enshrine in legislation the meeting of Kyoto targets when we have several witnesses who have come before us over the past number of weeks who said that in order to meet the Kyoto targets, we have two options: we spend an enormous amount of taxpayers' dollars overseas to buy credits, or we have a situation where we try to pressure industries into meeting those targets here in Canada.

Several of my colleagues and others have mentioned the fact that we could do major damage to many of the industries, whether it's the auto industry, or the oil sands industry in Alberta, or wherever the case may be, Mr. Chair.

To think that we're going to be able to clean up our environment to create good, clean air for Canadians and do it without the proper funding put in place.... In order to have that type of funding we need to have a very strong economy.

I'll go back to a comment Mr. Cullen made a few moments ago that I found interesting. He looked across the floor to us and said “Take your loss, accept your loss.” My conclusion of what has happened here over the past number of days now is that it is not us who have lost, it's Canadians who have lost, Mr. Chair.

Without continuing on with the plan that was in place and the right objectives to come forward, to be able to do what Canadians wanted us to do here, which was to create clean air, to put all our efforts into creating clean air, there's no doubt in my mind that once again, it's not us who have lost; it's Canadians who have lost this battle.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Mr. Cullen has a point of order.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Yes, very briefly, Mr. Chair.

We've arranged for some refreshments and cake up on the sixth floor, having seen the number of hours we all, the committee and our staff teams, have worked together.

We expected, having started at 9, that 1:30 would have been an appropriate time, but clearly we have more conversations to go on. So with the indulgence of the committee, if folks would like to come up and have five minutes of cake and maybe some refreshments, and then continue on with the speeches, we can finish.

I put that to the committee. We have arranged that. You're most welcome to come and join us and celebrate the work we've all done together on this bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

While I'm sure I appreciate that, it is the will of the committee. Does the committee wish a suspension?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

I think we're hearing a no, but with gratitude for the offer.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Well, we'll make sure we save some. I might even bring some back down if I can wrestle it from them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Okay, we'd appreciate that.

We'll carry on with Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Chair, I think the reality is that Canadians want us to get work done, not eat cake. As a personal position, I refuse to have cake at funerals, and I would suggest this is pretty close to that.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Chair, I think I am next on the agenda and I'd like some attention here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Mr. Jean has the floor.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

We have six paragraphs in front of us in this preamble, and I would suggest, Mr. Chair, very simply, it's a political statement. It's not about getting results for Canadians.

What I'm concerned with in this bill is the first paragraph, which simply states that companies can buy their way to pollute, and Canadians have to pay the price, the same as they've paid the price for the last 13 years of inaction, with nothing being done--and I'm ashamed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Monsieur Bigras.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be very brief because I would like to speed things up. However, I wanted to say a few words in this debate.

The amendment before us is excellent and summarizes what we expect from this bill, the spirit of the bill, which is a recognition that greenhouse gases and air pollution are a hazard for the environment and for biodiversity. This recognition is important.

I came here in 1997. I remember very well that members of the Conservative Party — then the Canadian Alliance — whenever we held those discussions in 1997-1998 on climate change, refused to recognize the negative impact of greenhouse gases. Today, if the government votes against this preamble, it will be clear that there has been during these 10 years no evolution in the position of the party in power. We have been hearing from this committee week after week the same empty speeches that we have been hearing for 10 years in the House of Commons from the party that is now the government. The government should realize that voting against this amendment and this preamble, which would ensure that we implement our commitments under the Kyoto Protocol, would reflect an unacceptable lack of action and respect for an international commitment made by Canada and that was ratified by the House of Commons in a significant vote that we must respect. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, we will support this amendment which reflects the spirit of what we tried to do in Bill C-30, which is to proceed with a real implementation of the Kyoto Protocol and to respect our international commitments. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Thank you, Mr. Bigras.

Mr. Dewar, the floor is yours.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Actually, you know what? I'll decline, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Well said.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I thought so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

No further debate? Are we ready for the question on L-3.1?

(Amendment agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Still on clause 2, we are down to BQ-1, which is on page 3. With the passage of L-3.1, BQ-1 is overtaken.

BQ-2 is....

[A voice]

Same thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

So BQ-2 is not moved.

NDP-3, Mr. Dewar.