Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) Committee on March 1st, 2011

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Dexter, you submitted this document, correct?

[Grant Dexter]

Yes.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

It's the document entitled “C-32 Amendments”, and it is signed by you.

You feel that C-32 requires some 14 amendments. Some of them are anything but minor. For one thing, you are suggesting doing away with the provision on user-generated content. You also suggest removing the exception for ephemeral recordings. You say as well that statutory damages should not be capped. In other words, there are a number of them here, and I don't intend to name all of them.

Do you believe that if Bill C-32 were to pass, it would effectively put an end to illegal downloading?

[Grant Dexter]

I think this bill is a great start for our community. With a few small changes and tweaks we could get a bill that our constituents would be thrilled with. I think everyone is willing to work with the government to do whatever is necessary, because without the bill we're in big trouble.

In 1999 the industry had almost $1.2 billion in sales; we're probably down to about $420 million to $430 million this year. We're in real trouble. We're not creating future stars. The bus rental companies are all going bankrupt, and the recording studios are all going bankrupt. So we think this is a great start. We're happy to work with all governments to make the bill a little better and protect ourselves.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

You realize that the amendments you are asking for are substantial. If those amendments do not go through and Bill C-32 passes immediately, would the new legislation be effective?

[Grant Dexter]

Well, I believe there will be some changes to the bill, so I'm not going to say that the current bill...because I think there is will on behalf of the government to represent its citizens. I think there will be changes, and I think we're going to end up with a great bill.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Henderson, do you think we should pass Bill C-32 and that it will be effective in putting an end to illegal downloading as well as restoring to artists the income they deserve?

[Graham Henderson]

I would echo Mr. Dexter's point. Having listened to this committee now for a couple of months, my sense is that there is an evolving consensus out there. I hear it from...either there's been very specific changes that you've sought, many of which are in Mr. Dexter's document, and I keep hearing from this side that they're prepared to make amendments.

In its current form, exactly as it is, no, we wouldn't want Bill C-32 looking like it does now. But a form such as what Mr. Dexter has proposed--that's a form that I think works for everybody.

I've heard nothing from this side, necessarily, that I think would stop this committee from amending the document in such a way to take into account the concerns that have been raised by your party, as well as the Liberal document that was published before Christmas.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

You're not going to like what I say next, Mr. Henderson. The consensus that you seem to see is not one that I or my colleagues in the Bloc Québécois have any sense of at all. First of all, the Conservative government would have to amend Bill C-32 to restore artists' revenues, the ones they have now and that are slated to be taken away. The Canadian Conference of the Arts has estimated that they represent $126 million a year. They are entitled to these royalties, royalties that Ms. Davies and Ms. McKennitt will no longer be receiving. So, I'm sure you can understand that $126 million annually is a lot to ask of artists who currently only earn $23,000 a year on average.

So, we are a long way from reaching any consensus with the Conservative government. As far as I myself and the Bloc Québécois are concerned, there is no doubt that if the Conservative government wanted to sit down and talk about these amendments, and negotiate a way of restoring artists' income, the Bloc Québécois would definitely take part in those discussions.

Unfortunately, however, there has been a total lack of good faith demonstrated in that regard. I understand that you all represent Balanced Copyright for Canada. Almost all of you are members of the board of directors, with the exception of Ms. McKennitt. I know that your organization is the primary funding source for Balanced Copyright for Canada and that Mr. Dexter is a member of the board.

[Grant Dexter]

We represent the music community.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes, but you are also a member of the board of directors of Balanced Copyright.

[Grant Dexter]

I'm on a lot of boards. I'm the chairman of the Canadian Independent Music Association, and I sit--

[John-Paul Ellson]

On that, I think an interesting thing to note about the people at this table is that this issue has actually brought us together. Prior to this, to have Mr. Henderson, me, and Mr. Dexter at a table with the same recommendations was not.... I don't think it ever happened. This issue has brought us together.

So what you're seeing here, in Balanced Copyright, is representing the artists from the very first step to the major hit.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Do you all take the same position as Mr. Dexter with respect to amendments to Bill C-32? Mr. Henderson, Ms. Davies and Mr. Ellson, have you seen this document? Since you seem to be saying you have not seen it, you don't know whether you agree.

Perhaps Mr. Dexter could address it with us, since he is well acquainted with the amendments he is suggesting. Are these amendments supported by everyone who is here today? Are these the amendments suggested by Balanced Copyright?

[Grant Dexter]

Why don't we ask everybody?

[Loreena McKennitt]

I must say, as an artist sitting here, and as a taxpayer, I find it incredibly demoralizing to feel that this is one more issue in our society that is bounced around through politics.

I used the word “dire”. We all used the word “urgency”. If this should be delayed any further because of political scoring, it would be deeply disturbing for those of us who are simply trying to make a living.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move to Mr. Angus for seven minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm glad to have you all here.

I'm sorry Ms. McKennitt is.... Your nose is out of joint on this. I think it's very important that we get a bill. I've been saying that from day one. I have some concerns about how this bill is going to be implemented, and my concern is artists.

Ms. Davies, you're new to our committee. We haven't had you here before. Do you support the dropping of mechanical rights, mechanical royalties right now, that some artists are getting from radio play?

[Maïa Davies]

The dropping of rights?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes. They're going to cancel that. It's worth $8 million to $10 million a year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

He's talking about the broadcast mechanical.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Have you looked at that?

[Maïa Davies]

No, I haven't.

If you would like to ask me very pointed questions about the law, you're obviously--

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

No, no, I'm sorry; I don't mean to put you on the spot.

[Maïa Davies]

Okay. I'm here as an artist.