Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) Committee on April 25th, 2007

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

In terms of the frustration Mr. Ménard was expressing, taking the conviction rate, is there any statistical analysis you can give us of the success in getting convictions, whether they be pleas or convictions after trial, and individuals being incarcerated in the pre-conviction period of time?

[Craig Grimes]

So whether or not the individual is in remand and then subsequently—?

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Is he more likely to enter a guilty plea because he—and it's almost always a he—or she is in custody for an extended period of time? That's one part.

Can you draw—

[Craig Grimes]

That's—

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

It's not possible?

[Craig Grimes]

We can't, with that data set, identify whether or not the individual is in remand.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Yes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernard Patry]

Thank you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Hanger, please.

[Art Hanger, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to thank the witnesses for their appearances here today.

In fact, contrary to what Mr. Ménard may feel about these stats, I see there are some data here that really reflect or support, I believe, what we're attempting to do with this bill. I appreciate the fact that some of the data are a little more precise than others, but at least they do tell a story.

Just for the benefit of the opposition, keep in mind why we're presenting this bill, and that is to deal with the worst of the worst gun crimes: the drive-by shootings, the robberies, the offences that involve a firearm and threaten the lives of other people. We can get as technical as we want, but that's the basis of this bill, and those offenders are what this bill is intended to target.

Going to your stats on page 3, you list total incidents, which are police reports of firearms use, and then you have those cleared by charge. In terms of the difference between the two, does one reflect the incident with the firearm and the other a court appearance or what happens in a court, if I might ask?

There is quite a difference there.

[John Turner]

Yes, the difference between the two figures is the ones that are not cleared by charge at all, which are not solved, and also the ones that are cleared by police other than by a charge, so say through informal process diversion or some other reason like that.

The first cut is that they have to find an accused person. So we don't see the ones who aren't cleared at all. It's either cleared by charge or cleared by means other than a charge.

[Art Hanger, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

That's quite a high number, 2,000 or 3,000. What about drive-by shootings? What category would they fall in?

[John Turner]

Well, as there is no Criminal Code offence on drive-by shootings, we don't collect those specifically.

[Art Hanger, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Well, a drive-by shooting is somebody firing a gun at somebody else.

[John Turner]

That's correct.

[Art Hanger, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Is that reflected here in the data?

[John Turner]

That would be an offence that it would be up to the police officer to determine. We would collect that offence. It certainly is a Criminal Code incident.

As to what it would fall under, it could be attempted murder, or—

[Art Hanger, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

If I may help you here, it might be discharging a firearm, section 252.

[John Turner]

It could also be attempted murder.

[Art Hanger, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

It could be attempted murder.

[John Turner]

It could be a level 3 assault, potentially, too.

[Art Hanger, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Okay, so those are the issues we're experiencing on our streets in this country, I assume. Would you not say that's high in the minds of a lot of people, charges like discharging a firearm into a crowd, any attempted murder charges? Those are offences that this bill is intended to capture, offenders who commit these acts.

[John Turner]

Yes, those are certainly some of our serious violent crimes.

[Art Hanger, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

All right. So that's the intent of the bill.

From what I can see here, then, even though the numbers may not be absolutely as large as one might think, it's still intended to keep the serious offenders in jail prior to their trial.

[Lynn Barr-Telford]

What we've provided for you is essentially the volume, the number of incidents that are specific to the Bill C-35 legislation. From that you can get a sense of the volume of these types of offences that were taking place in 2005.

[Art Hanger, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Okay. So an offence is committed, an arrest is made, and the police officer brings that individual before a bail magistrate. The bail magistrate, when this bill is enacted, will then detain the individual for court, and that hearing will take place in court?