Canada-China Relations Committee on Jan. 30th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Colleagues, this meeting of the Special Committee on Canada-China Relations will come to order.

Mr. Bergeron, you have something to say, I think.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair. I wanted to know the status of the translation of the document that I am still waiting for after our last meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

It is done, and the document will be delivered to your office today.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

And none too soon. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Actually, that's very good timing.

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron, because your comments gave us time to receive the cards with our names on them. So today's witnesses will be able to see who we are.

Colleagues, the first hour of this meeting will be with the officials on the bilateral relationship and the second hour with the officials on trade. There will be 10-minute opening remarks for each panel and, of course, each will be followed by a round of questions by members.

This morning we have, from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, Marta Morgan, deputy minister, foreign affairs; Paul Thoppil, assistant deputy minister, Asia Pacific; and Cindy Termorshuizen, director general, international security policy bureau.

Please proceed, Ms. Morgan.

[Marta Morgan, Deputy Minister, Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. My colleagues and I are very grateful today to have the opportunity to give you some background on China and Canada's relationship with it.

Let me start by acknowledging the preoccupation that I know we all have with the coronavirus outbreak in China and the impact this is having on Canadians. The safety and well-being of Canadians at home and abroad is of paramount importance to the Government of Canada. Canada is deeply concerned by the current outbreak of the novel coronavirus, particularly regarding its potential impacts on Canadians in the Wuhan area.

Global Affairs Canada is working closely with the Public Health Agency of Canada and supporting their engagement with Chinese health officials to provide a timely and coordinated response to the outbreak. Some 156 Canadian citizens have contacted Global Affairs Canada for departure assistance. The government has secured a chartered aircraft and is now working on the diplomatic front with officials in China to obtain the authorizations to proceed with an assisted departure.

This latest crisis is occurring after a long period of instability in Hong Kong and, as you are well aware, a difficult year in Canada-China relations. Canada's relations with China are complex, with both opportunities and challenges. Now more than ever, Canadians are asking questions about what China's economic growth and governance model means for their future prosperity, their security and Canada's place in the world.

The committee is taking on important work at a crucial time. A common understanding of where the People's Republic of China is going and how it touches Canada's national interests will make our policy better. The committee will decide what issues to examine in closer detail and will have the opportunity to hear a wide variety of views from experts and stakeholders. Ambassador Dominic Barton, whom you will meet next week, will provide an excellent view from the ground in Beijing.

The governments of Canada and China have, or at least had until the end of 2018, close ties in a number of areas. Few government departments or agencies do not have a partnership with their counterparts in China, in one form or another, and do not have a mandate in which China occupies a major place. Global Affairs Canada is taking a lead role in coordinating the Government of Canada's approach to China, in order to ensure that our relationships are consistent.

I am here to present a general background, which I invite you to consider when you are establishing your program.

For many years, citizens of Canada and the People's Republic of China have built bridges between our countries. While October 2020 will mark 50 years since we established diplomatic ties, many years before that Canadian missionaries helped found leading medical schools in China, and Canada traded wheat to stave off famine across China in the early days of the People's Republic.

It is remarkable that Canada and Canadians, despite our ideological differences, reached out across the Pacific to support the people of China even without an embassy to support them. With the founding of diplomatic relations, Canada launched a broad official relationship, including a bilateral aid program that wound down in 2013.

Through our aid and engagement, Canada supported China's modernization and opening up. Canadians made substantial contributions to reform in the non-profit, legal, educational and agricultural systems over the decades. For example, Canadian programming helped Chinese farmers adapt to the WTO as China completed a accession process.

Reform was critical to China's success in alleviating poverty. According to the World Bank, China has lifted 850 million people out of poverty. China's poverty rate fell from 88% in 1981 to 0.7% in 2015. In 2018 China's GDP was 174 times the size it was in 1952, and per capita annual income had surpassed $10,000 U.S.

As China's economy opened and grew, Canadian trade and investment in China did as well. China is now Canada's third-largest trading partner after the U.S. and the EU.

While still only accounting for roughly 5% of Canadian exports, Canada's trade with China has grown rapidly in recent years. In 2018 two-way merchandise trade between Canada and China reached $103.2 billion, including $27.6 billion in Canadian exports and $75.6 billion in imports.

As my colleague Steve Verheul will explain in the next session, Canadian exports to China fell in 2019. Canada exports mostly raw materials to China under the direct oversight of the Chinese government. As we have been able to see, Canadian exports of canola can be vulnerable to interventions from the Chinese government, interventions that contravene international rules and standards.

Our commercial relations with China have grown not only in exchange of goods, but more broadly. In 2018 service exports to China were valued at $7.4 billion, while imports from China were valued at $2.8 billion, a 6.1% year-on-year increase in two-way services trade.

China is Canada's third-largest source of tourists and its second-largest source of international students to Canada.

But as China's market grew, so did competition for access to it, and China itself has become more competitive. China's economy now accounts for nearly one third of global growth each year. Even at modest rates for China of 6% annual growth, China adds the equivalent of an Australia to its economy every year.

China has enormous potential to contribute to resolving common global challenges. Indeed, when it comes to global problems such as climate change and health, China, by virtue of its population and economic weight, will continue to play a significant role in tackling our collective problems.

As a permanent member of the UN Security Council and an increasingly important economic and military power, China's influence on Canada's international security priorities cannot be ignored.

On December 10, 2019, Parliament passed the motion establishing this special committee to examine all aspects of the Canada-China relationship. December 10 is also International Human Rights Day, and December 10 is also the day in 2018 when Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor were detained arbitrarily by authorities of the People's Republic of China.

December 10, 2018, is a day that changed Canada's outlook on its relations with China. Canada and many of our partners were shocked and saddened by the detention of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor.

We condemn arbitrary detentions and sentencing. Coercive practices, especially those that target innocent individuals for political ends, undermine the norms and principles that are the foundation of international relations. International partners have also condemned the detention and the practice of residential surveillance at a designated location that falls outside of any recognized judicial process for many detained in China.

We have also raised concern about the failure to recognize the residual immunities of Michael Kovrig, who is a colleague and friend for many in Global Affairs Canada.

These detentions reflect broader features of China's governance that pose challenges to human rights and the rule of law: the Communist Party's increasingly authoritarian grip on power; restrictions on civic freedoms in Hong Kong and abuses of human rights in Xinjiang; coercive diplomacy against individuals and countries that threaten the Chinese government's interests; and threats to democracy and democratic institutions.

The Government of Canada has not shied away from disagreements with the Government of the People's Republic. We have called at every opportunity for the immediate release of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor, as well as clemency for Robert Schellenberg and all death penalty cases.

As an absolute priority for the Government of Canada, Canadian officials have worked tirelessly to advocate for these cases bilaterally and multilaterally, while remaining consistent in our policy approach to bilateral relations with China.

We have always indicated our deep concern with the restrictions on the rights and freedoms of the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities. We do so both in our bilateral relations and in multilateral forums such as the Human Rights Council. We have asked the Chinese authorities to respect the freedom of religion of all Chinese citizens in Xinjiang and in Tibet, whatever their faith—Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or practitioners of Falung Gong. We have also asked them to put an end to the efforts to silence those standing up for human rights.

We have argued in favour of Taiwan's genuine participation in international forums where international action is needed, such as the World Health Organization.

On these issues, Canada is not alone. Like-minded partners have added their voices to call for the release of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor and an end to arbitrary detention. Canada enjoys the good company of many democratic nations in our call for an end to human rights abuses in China.

In the face of these challenges, however, we must also recognize our deep people-to-people ties, including the nearly two million Canadians of Chinese descent. Exchanges take place not just between governments, but between companies, students, tourists, artists and athletes. Governments play a facilitating role in these people-to-people exchanges, which are an important foundation for progress.

Looking forward, the relations with China will continue to be complex, and Canada will need to chart a path that allows us to protect Canada's interests, to work with China on issues of mutual benefit and to continue to press for justice and human rights.

Canadian businesses will benefit from the growth of the Chinese economy, which will become the biggest in the world, and from an increasing role in the value chain for goods and services.

Whether we are involved in global solutions to climate change, financial systems, or pandemics, we have to rely on participation from China. Multilateral cooperation begins with the creation of solid bilateral relationships.

Canada needs to enhance our understanding of China, not only to adapt to the opportunities it presents, but also to better defend the core values of democracy, human rights and freedoms that Canadians enjoy at home and abroad. This can only happen, I believe, with enhanced people-to-people ties and ongoing engagement, all of which starts with the return of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor and clemency for Robert Schellenberg.

The work of this committee presents an important opportunity to review all aspects of the Canada-China relationship and to chart a path forward that takes into account both risks and opportunities.

I wish you much success in this important work.

I will be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Ms. Morgan.

We will start the round with Ms. Alleslev.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for being here and for recognizing just how critical at this point in the global world—as well as our own—the Canada-China relationship is. You gave a great overview, but I'm wondering if we could specifically target this to an understanding of exactly what actions have occurred in the last 14 months, namely, what direction you've been given by the government and what actions you have taken over the last 14 months to prevent the further decline of Canada's relationship with the People's Republic of China.

[Marta Morgan]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me say that over the past 14 months our priority has been to resolve a number of the challenging issues that have arisen in our relationship with the People's Republic of China, starting with the detention of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor. The Government of Canada is deeply concerned by the arbitrary detention and arrest by Chinese authorities of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor and we continue to call for their immediate release.

We have worked very closely at all levels to convey these messages to the Government of China, most recently in a meeting in Japan between Minister Champagne and his counterpart, Foreign Minister Wang Yi, shortly after Minister Champagne became foreign minister. We have engaged many other countries to assist us in making these representations. Fourteen other countries have supported us publicly, and even more privately.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Can I ask you about this on that front? Fourteen countries have agreed to support us publicly. That's fantastic, and we want their support—no question—but what specific action have you taken to translate that support into quantifiable action? Specifically, what are they doing in terms of actions to make that support...and have the arbitrary detention withdrawn?

[Marta Morgan]

Mr. Chair, the countries that have engaged in support with us have made both public and private representations at many levels to the Government of China on these issues.

In addition to this, I would also like to discuss the trade side a little bit, because that has been one issue that has emerged in the last 14 months, if the chair would permit.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

That would be great, because in actual fact we understand that our largest ally and partner, the United States, is currently signing an agreement with China, yet we haven't seen any action by way of support for Canada on the arbitrary detention issue. Can you speak to that, please?

[Marta Morgan]

Absolutely. The Government of the United States has spoken out against the arbitrary detention of Mr. Spavor and Mr. Kovrig, Mr. Chair. There have been resolutions in the House of Representatives, for example, decrying the detention of these two individuals. All of our allies—

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

But actions speak louder than words, so what specific actions...? Certainly, not signing a trade agreement when that would have been a prime opportunity.... Are we concerned with our relationship with the U.S., who is perhaps not advocating the way we need them to on this issue?

[Marta Morgan]

Mr. Chair, the United States is as concerned as we are with the arbitrary detention and arrest by Chinese authorities of Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor. It has supported us both publicly and privately through diplomatic channels in making representations to the Government of China about this arbitrary detention and arbitrary conditions—

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Would you say that progress has been made as a result?

[Marta Morgan]

Mr. Chair, this is a complicated issue, clearly. It involves delicate diplomatic relationships. It is not entirely within the control, as you would know, of the Government of Canada. We have made best efforts across a variety of diplomatic channels and working with our allies, including the United States, to put pressure on the Government of China around the arbitrary detention and arrest of these individuals, as well as to seek clemency for Mr. Schellenberg.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

You have one minute.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

You were going to mention the trade aspects and how we are utilizing the trade aspects to also improve our relationship with China. Can you speak to that?

[Marta Morgan]

Let me just say that in the trade aspects of the relationship, as you're aware, the current canola seeds market issue with the Government of China has had a big impact on Canadian farmers. The Government of Canada is taking action through the rule of law and the processes that exist to resolve these problems.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

You've already outlined how they're not necessarily abiding by the rule of law, so what recourse do we have when they're not playing by the rules as specified?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

You have about six seconds for the answer.

[Marta Morgan]

Canada will continue to pursue this through the WTO, which is the established mechanism to resolve trade disputes. That reinforces our commitment to the rule of law and to using established processes to resolve these disputes.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Colleagues, there are two sides to this. On the one hand, I'd like to ask members to allow the witnesses to answer the questions. At the same time, I'd like to ask the witnesses to try to be concise and focus their answers on the questions asked.

Next we have Mr. Fragiskatos.