Canada-China Relations Committee on Feb. 5th, 2020

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Ambassador. I appreciate your service. Obviously, with service comes scrutiny by the public, including their officials, so I appreciate your being here.

Have you ever met with Huawei officials in your capacity as Canada's ambassador to China?

[Dominic Barton]

I have.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Would you mind putting on the record whom you met with from Huawei and where you met them and roughly when?

[Dominic Barton]

I'm not sure what the privacy rules are, but I have had outreach from some of the senior vice-presidents to talk about information that relates to the consular cases.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

The Privacy Act pertains to Canadian citizens.

[Dominic Barton]

That's right.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

So did you meet with these officials in China?

[Dominic Barton]

Yes, I did.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay, and were they Chinese officials from Huawei or were they Canadian ones?

[Dominic Barton]

One was Canadian and one was Chinese.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

What was the nature of your conversations?

[Dominic Barton]

Again, I'm a rookie at what's private or not in this sort of thing, but they were conversations about the relationship between Canada and China, what was happening with the Meng situation and so forth. They were giving their views about the situation and what was happening. I'm open to hearing ideas and views from many different people in the system. It wasn't a negotiation or anything like that. It was just, 'Here's our view of what's happening.'

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Did you raise the illegal detention of Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig?

[Dominic Barton]

Absolutely. I always do that when I have the chance, and I did.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

In this case, did any commitments by those officials come from that?

[Dominic Barton]

Again, it's unclear to me what influence the company has in China, and it's not for me to figure out the detail of that. What I expressed to them was that while they might be very upset and concerned because Madam Meng had been arrested, we are very upset and concerned because Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig have been arrested, and we've had the death sentence put on Robert Schellenberg.

That was the nature of the discussion.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Did the Huawei officials ever suggest a so-called prisoner exchange, as had been suggested by Eddie Goldenberg and plied by other senior officials such as John Manley and Jean Chrétien?

[Dominic Barton]

They did not to me.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Again, I think it's important for us to be asking, because, as you said, the relationship is broken, and you talked about wires and linkages, and I think that obviously includes talking to the business community among others.

Sir, you mentioned earlier your lack of knowledge of the position on the South China Sea. Obviously, that's a very important geopolitical issue. It's important to trade. It's important to Canada. I'm from British Columbia, so I know that having some certainty in those areas is very important.

On July 12, 2016, at the time the Minister of Global Affairs, Stéphane Dion, said he welcomed the tribunal ruling on the Convention of the Law of the Sea by a UN body, and in it he said, “Canada therefore stands ready to contribute to initiatives that build confidence and help restore trust in the region.”

Ambassador, how can you stand ready for initiatives that build confidence and help restore trust if you don't know the government's position on the South China Sea?

[Dominic Barton]

As I mentioned on the South China Sea, just to clarify, we respect and would respect international arbitration rulings on what has happened in that case, and the international ruling is that there is a concern. ASEAN has also raised issues, and we've supported that. I do have a view on that.

In general, the Canadian government respects international arbitration and policies, but we're careful about what we talk about on the maritime side. On the South China Sea, I very much worry about trade being able to flow through places. We care a lot about that. I know we do a lot in the Taiwan Strait, for example. The navy goes through there as a matter of course, so open sea routes are important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Albas.

Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Ambassador Barton, for being with us.

I think it's important to note that our committee is doing some important work. Our work is meant to look at this complex, important relationship we have with China.

You've been invited here to help us. I think that some members who are subbing on the committee seem to think this is an American-style confirmation hearing. This is not. I want to make sure that people watching this recognize that your appointment has followed due process. Everything about this appointment has been for the best interests of Canada. I personally want to thank you for your public service and doing this.

This is not about you—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

On a point of order, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I think you'd find that it's out of order for the member to imply that in a free society tough questions to public officials are out of order. It is important that, in Canada, we are able to ask challenging questions to government appointees.