Canada-China Relations Committee on Oct. 9th, 2020

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I'm not quite sure this is a point of order, so let's just call it a reminder, Mr. Chair.

I want to reiterate something I've raised numerous times in the past: that the reports we produce on an interim basis be deemed interim reports by us, the committee members, since we've also agreed to revisit the specific issue of Tibet. I imagine Mr. Genuis is also going to be proposing a motion to resume the work or hear from other witnesses on Tibet.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

I think that was a clarification.

We can go back to Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. Bergeron.

I don't recall the committee specifically and I wasn't able to find it in the minutes, but now that he's mentioning it, I am recalling that Mr. Harris had a previous motion with respect to hearing from officials on the issue of the situation in Tibet. I don't have that motion in front of me, unfortunately. I did look through the minutes of previous meetings to see what we adopted, but maybe it didn't appear there or maybe I just missed it. I wanted to go on to make some suggestions with respect to our study on Hong Kong. Maybe while I do that, Mr. Bergeron or Mr. Harris may want to see if they can find that information.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I think I saw Mr. Harris mouthing that he does have it in front of him, if you want me to go to him now.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Sure, let's do that.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I do have it from the minutes. It's a motion by me that was passed by the committee. It said:

That the committee invite officials from Global Affairs Canada to provide a briefing on the situation in Tibet and Canada's relationship at the earliest opportunity as part of its ongoing study on Canada's relationship with China.

That was important to my support for the motion. The idea of reporting it to the House was basically an interim motion. Whether we should be reporting all this stuff to the House in the interim is a different question. We just passed the motion again, so we have it in front of us. It was also, from my point of view at least, contingent upon supporting the interim motion that we agreed to look further into this, because we had only heard from one person. We had not heard from any of the other stakeholders, and we didn't really have a briefing as a committee on that point.

It was one of those surprise motions, shall we say, that needed some thought and consideration before the committee was ready to adopt it, but we did indeed adopt it and I have no hesitation in readopting it today, the first one. I think this one here is important, and if it is in order, Mr. Chair, perhaps I would put that forward now for the committee's approval as a readoption of that motion. If that's the case, let me move:

That the committee invite officials from Global Affairs Canada to provide a briefing on the situation in Tibet and Canada's relationship at the earliest opportunity as part of its ongoing study on Canada's relationship with China.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

Any debate or comments on this motion? I see none.

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.

Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There is now, in terms of concluding the business from the previous Parliament, the question of the Hong Kong study. Of course, the Hong Kong study is very important, and it's also fast moving. My suggestion would be that we bring that study to a conclusion and prepare a report as soon as is reasonably possible, because time has passed since our previous hearing.

That said, I would note that there are some people we particularly want to hear from first. In my mind, a key one is Minister Mendicino. We had talked about needing to dig further into the immigration aspect of it, and there had been interest in and agreement that we would hear from Minister Mendicino about the refugee dimension of that. Also, we should give an opportunity for our consul general in Hong Kong to appear, obviously virtually.

That could maybe be one more meeting and then, in the meantime, invite our analysts to begin the process of preparing a report so that we can apply the important testimony that we heard in August and share that with our colleagues in the House as quickly as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's not a motion. It's just a point of discussion to start us off on this section of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

That's fine.

Mr. Bergeron, go ahead.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I completely agree with what Mr. Genuis just proposed, but I do have two concerns. First, I would, once again, reiterate the importance of using the term “interim report” in reference to a report that could be tabled. As I've mentioned before, what's happening in Hong Kong necessarily has an impact on Taiwan, for instance, so it's important to keep in mind that global problems can't be boiled down to specific issues that will be reported on before a comprehensive report is tabled. It might be tabled before the end of the session, but it might not be. I think it's crucial that we use the term “interim” in reference to the committee's reports.

Second, I wanted to comment on what Mr. Genuis said. In terms of the work plan that the analysts had provided, I think everyone on the committee was on board. The motion should be to resume the study on the Canada-China relationship, according to the work plan provided by the analysts. Of course, I, too, recommend that we start with the study on the situation Hong Kong is facing right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I think it's in order to propose that. Isn't that what you'd like to do?

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Exactly, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I believe the clerk thinks it's in order. Is that right? She's indicating her agreement.

Very good. Thank you.

Are there any comments?

Mr. Harris, it's over to you.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Yes, I agree that we have a work plan that was adopted. I know there are several new members on our committee, and they might make a little effort to go and have a look at it. There may be some proposed changes in that work plan, but that's something that perhaps the subcommittee can look at.

Today, we're dealing with some complexities, of course. The idea of an interim report on Hong Kong was probably agreed to. We moved into that study because of the urgent nature of things that were happening in Hong Kong. That is why we wanted to get the committee back together again, and why it was ultimately agreed to. The events in Hong Kong were extremely important, and still are. It's a moving target, as Mr. Genuis has pointed out. We did diligent work on the Hong Kong study. We didn't quite finish it.

I don't know whether one meeting will be enough. I would suggest that should be discussed at the subcommittee along with the scheduling issue. We just agreed to deal with Tibet as soon as is it is practical. That's a scheduling issue. The idea of the general agreement of going by the work plan is a good starting point. I had a brief look at it today, and it seems to me that we had a lot of work done by the committee, the subcommittee and the analysts in preparing a work plan. We may need to make adjustments to it, add different witnesses or whatever. Depending on availability, it may be totally different,

I am in agreement with Mr. Bergeron's motion. The notion that we complete the work on Hong Kong as soon as it is practical going forward can be incorporated. I don't know if it's excluded by Mr. Bergeron's motion, because the work plan was there when we embarked on the Hong Kong study. Perhaps the details can be more readily dealt with by the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. That's inherent in the positive support for Mr. Bergeron's motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Genuis is next.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I am very much in agreement with that. I'm persuaded about the value of proceeding in that fashion. As others have said, as long as there's a consensus that we're working toward an interim report on the situation in Hong Kong, and that our analysts will begin that process.... I don't know if we need to formally say this, but that interim report will reflect evidence that has been heard in the previous session as well as the new evidence that we're going to hear.

Just to further inform the discussion, I wonder if you, Madam Clerk, could share with us, based on the work plan.... If I recall, we had scheduled four or five meetings, and we did three of them. Could you just refresh us on where those...? If we were to proceed exactly according to the work plan, and take into consideration witness availability, how many more meetings, which witnesses and what would that involve?

[The Clerk]

I would turn to the analysts for that, because they have more information about the work plan and all of that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Ms. Goody, please go ahead.

[Allison Goody, Committee Researcher]

Hello again, everyone.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The committee had envisioned approximately four to six meetings. It would depend, of course, on the scheduling availability of certain witnesses. The decision was to have some flexibility there, and three full meetings were completed at the time.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Just to follow up on that, could you give us a sense of...? I believe that Minister Mendicino and the consul general were already on that work plan for prospective meetings as well.

[Allison Goody]

Yes.

A meeting was envisioned for August 25 with a full slate of witnesses, but that meeting was cancelled. In addition to that, the individuals you mentioned were discussed as the priorities for the final meetings. There was the meeting with the remainder of the academics and other witnesses, and you had discussed having the minister and the consul general after that.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is my final comment, Mr. Chair, before I wrap up. As long as we're operating under the understanding that we're going to complete the Hong Kong study in the previously envisioned amount of time, according to the previously envisioned work plan, and then proceed with an interim report based on that, as discussed, I'm very supportive of proceeding in that fashion.