Canada-China Relations Committee on May 10th, 2021

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I would like to make that motion, please, Chair.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Go ahead, Mr. Williamson.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Just as a clarification from the chair, or perhaps even from MP Zann, is this motion substantially different from the motion this committee had previously passed asking the Health Agency to do just that?

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Since we have not received the documents unredacted, I am asking that the PHAC send them to the clerk for him to review.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Madam Clerk, do you have the original motion? Could you read it to us, please?

I have stopped the time, by the way.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Marie-France Lafleur]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

What I have here is essentially Ms. Zann asking the committee to reject the reasons that were provided from PHAC and to uphold the order for the production of documents, essentially meaning that it's a new motion that the unredacted documents be provided to the law clerk—

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Sorry. What I meant was the original motion, the previous motion that we passed that led to the order.

[The Clerk]

Yes. Give me just one moment here.

It would be the motion that was adopted by this committee on March 31, 2021.

Do you want me to read the whole thing?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Yes, please.

[The Clerk]

I have:

That the committee send for all information and documents in the possession of the Public Health Agency of Canada or any subsidiary organizations relating to the transfer of Ebola and Henipah viruses to the Wuhan Institute of Virology in March of 2019 and the subsequent revocation of security clearances for, and termination of the employment of, Dr. Xiangguo Qiu and Keding Cheng, provided that:

(a) these documents shall be deposited with the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, in an unredacted form, within 20 days of the adoption of this order;

(b) the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel discuss with the committee, in an in camera meeting, information contained therein, which in his opinion, might reasonably be expected to compromise national security or reveal details of an ongoing criminal investigation, other than the existence of an investigation, so that the committee may determine which information is placed before a committee in public; and

(c) should the Public Health Agency of Canada not provide documents in their unredacted form within 20 days, the President of the Public Health Agency of Canada and the Acting Vice-President, National Microbiology Laboratory, Infectious Disease Prevention and Control Branch at the Public Health Agency of Canada be scheduled to appear for three hours before the committee, within 27 days of this motion passing, to explain why the documents were not provided.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

Mr. Oliphant, is your hand raised on a point of order related to this argument?

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Yes, Mr. Chair. I'm not sure it's a point of order.

You have ruled that the motion is acceptable, which I understand, because the member had the floor and is able to make a motion. I understand that the motion is relevant to the discussion, so I understand that you would rule in favour.

I think you might want to canvass the other members of the committee. We could move right into that motion, but there may be some really important questions that the other members who have only had one round so far want to raise before we get to that motion.

I think the motion is predicated on the disappointment that Ms. Zann has that we have not had the unredacted documents and is offering a solution, which I think Mr. Harris did hint at towards the end of his questioning when he asked the parliamentary law clerk if he would avail himself to do that kind of work, and he said yes.

I want your thought about whether or not we're now into this debate on the motion. I think it is a good motion and I will be happy to support it, but I also don't want it to cut off Monsieur Bergeron or Mr. Harris or the other members of the committee who may want to ask some questions before we get into it.

I just wanted to figure out how you want to handle that. You're the chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Genuis, I'll get to you in a moment, if you don't mind.

I asked the clerk to read the motion so that I could assess Mr. Williamson's point of order and his objection that this was substantially, or least in part, the same as the motion already passed.

If you don't mind, Mr. Genuis, I'd like to ask the clerk about the provision regarding a motion that is substantially or partially the same as the previous motion.

Madam Clerk, what can you tell me about that?

[The Clerk]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In these circumstances, I would say that moving a motion to ask for the same documents again would be essentially the same as rejecting the reasons provided by the Public Health Agency to not provide the documents, essentially upholding the committee's decision from March 31.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would just like to know the specific text of Ms. Zann's motion. We need that information in order to vote on it. We may wish to propose amendments to it as well. She moved the motion and we're debating the motion, unless Mr. Oliphant proposes to do something else with it, which would have to be considered.

I'd just like to know what the motion is. Then I'd probably be interested in coming in on it on debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

Madam Clerk, do you have the motion? Would you like to read it? Is that why you're raising your hand?

[The Clerk]

I just wanted to let you know that Mr. Chong raised his hand in the room as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Yes.

[The Clerk]

The motion I have from Ms. Zann is as follows:

That the unredacted documents from the Public Health Agency of Canada be provided to the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel for him to review and ascertain the fairness of them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

Mr. Genuis, your hand is still up. Is that on a point of order?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That would be on debate.