Canada-China Relations Committee on Nov. 9th, 2020

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay, Mr. Chair. It may be that someone else wants to weigh in on that point, but I'll put another question out there.

Ms. Tung, you spoke about infiltration in every part of Canadian society, including within the Chinese community. I also think I heard you say that you recommended banning WeChat. WeChat is used quite extensively within the Canadian Chinese community. It's also used by a lot of politicians who wish to stay in touch with people who are on that platform, and it's led to problems in the past, where one politician's WeChat group was involved in fundraising, I think, for a lawsuit against a journalist.

How would you recommend that we use or not use WeChat? Also, what are the implications for the Chinese Canadian community if WeChat were to be banned as you suggest?

[Mabel Tung]

You have to understand that WeChat is controlled by the Chinese government. A lot of information that we're getting from WeChat is generated in China to deal with some other issues and status stuff as well.

WeChat is also a propagandist for the Chinese government. A lot of people from mainland China are not getting information from our western media. They are getting information from WeChat. For whatever the Chinese government wants want to tell or have considered by their overseas Chinese or their own Chinese citizens about how great China or their leaders are, they always put it in WeChat. Also, they monitor all the items in WeChat, so it's an infiltration of Canadians on Canadian soil.

Instead of WeChat, there is a lot of other social media out there that they can use.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

All right. Thank you for that.

Ms. Tung or Mr. Nelson, do either of you want to comment on the question about Canadian leadership specifically and whether Canada is well positioned to lead the global response to what's happening in Hong Kong?

[Adam Nelson]

I would. I think that's a great question.

Professor Tsang has spoken about refugees and alliances. There's one thing I would note on the alliances. Number one, I would point particularly to pursuing alliances in Asia-Pacific itself. We see a lot of movement in Japan and South Korea.

For example, Mr. Genuis, I know that you're on the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China. I think the development of that group—and the more Canadian members of Parliament can take leadership to be able to work with other parliamentarians worldwide—will be particularly helpful.

Finally, I would say that the Chinese Communist Party doesn't like sunshine on these issues. They don't like transparency, so even things like these sorts of hearings help, where people can speak and submit papers for the record, or there's what the Government of Canada could do to provide funding, maybe through Global Affairs Canada or other things, to Canadian NGOs and Canadian universities, to be able to continue to highlight these issues and do fact-finding to get more on paper.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

I have one quick final question I want to ask Ms. Tung. There's a story just out on the BBC looking at the significant threat that Hong Kong international students studying abroad would be under as a result of the extraterritorial application of this law.

Could you give us your thoughts on the situation of international students from mainland China, from Hong Kong or from other places, who are in Canada and the ways in which foreign intimidation may threaten their ability to have the normal free-inquiry university experience we would expect, and what we can do to push back and protect the integrity of our academic institutions and the rights of international students in Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

You have five seconds, I'm afraid.

[Mabel Tung]

Our government should help the international students from Hong Kong, especially because some of them have already put a lot of effort into helping Hong Kong and they certainly will be charged under the national security law when they go back to Hong Kong.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Ms. Zann, you have five minutes.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for all of your passionate witness testimony. I'm sorry that the other gentleman had to leave. I actually had some questions for him.

Ms. Tung, you mentioned that you also have some sympathy for the Chinese people who are pushing back on the democratization and all of the different things that people are doing that would be in contradiction to the Chinese government. You said that they have been indoctrinated or that they are being educated in a different way.

Could you expand on that a little, please, to make us see where you're coming from on that particular issue?

[Mabel Tung]

The Chinese government is very controlling. It controls everything. From the very beginning, in childhood—I'm talking about the mainland Chinese in China—they are kind of brainwashed. They have to praise their leaders on and on, and they have to follow the instructions, so from then on they always think that China is the greatest country in the world and that they shouldn't allow the separation of any part of the Chinese land by anybody.

That is deep in their minds, and then they also try to influence a lot of Chinese outside of China. That's why some of the students, the international students, once they are able to get an education in the western world and they understand what democracy really means, they kind of object to what they have been learning since childhood.

In the past we provided a lot of support to some of the students, especially after June 4, 1989. We've been helping quite a few people to settle in Canada for that reason. Also, we are really passionate about some of the mothers of the Tiananmen Square students who died, because those mothers are still not able to openly remember their children and how they died, and they didn't even know at all. We are really passionate about that, and that's what has kept us going for the last 31 years.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you so much.

It looks as though Hong Kong's annual June 4 Tiananmen Square memorial will likely be banned because of the national security law, and I'm noting charges against 24 high-profile activists who attended that memorial this year. You stated that in Vancouver a more prominent public memorial to the massacre is necessary now more than ever.

Why do you believe it's necessary for Vancouver to have a memorial to the Chinese citizens killed in the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre?

[Mabel Tung]

Hong Kong is the only city that is still able to remember those children who died in the Tiananmen Square massacre, and it is the only prominent city with lots of candles lit on June 4, although every year the number is diminished. That's why Vancouver, with one of the largest populations of people of Chinese origin in North America, should continue to remember those students who passed away and what happened on June 4, which shaped the world over the last 31 years.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I'm sure there are a lot of citizens also living in Australia. Do you have any activity planned with them at all?

[Mabel Tung]

We have connections around the world, especially after last year. We have 36 cities around the world with the same goal, to protect democracy and the democratic movement in Hong Kong. All of us feel connected. Every year, on June 4, we will have candlelight vigils around the world to remember those events.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Ms. Zann.

[Mabel Tung]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Ms. Tung.

Mr. Bergeron now has the floor.

Mr. Bergeron, you have two minutes and thirty seconds at your disposal.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

My question is for Ms. Tung first, but of course our other witness can contribute if he wishes. In fact, perhaps he would like to answer my last question, which the chair did not permit, given the very limited time that would have been allowed for the answer.

In any case, the Canadian consul general in Hong Kong told us that so far no one has made a claim for asylum and that given the current conditions no one would be granted any kind of asylum. That is why we are looking into this issue in particular.

Under the circumstances, what would you recommend to pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong who would like to leave the territory to ensure their own safety?

[Mabel Tung]

We've done it in the past.

Right after the June 4 massacre, not just Canadians but those in other countries around the world helped dissidents from China to leave China and leave Hong Kong, through Hong Kong mostly. They provided essential resources for them to travel and leave Hong Kong. I think we can do the same thing here and provide essential resources. Some of the protestors are in a lot of danger. They are being followed by the police and intimidated by the police. I think we can do that as well.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Nelson, would you like to add something?

[Adam Nelson]

The only thing I would add to that is to have the Government of Canada come up with a lifeboat scheme. That's one of the number one recommendations for Hong Kong pro-democracy groups.

One thing to remember is that Hong Kong society is not entirely wealthy. It has one of the largest income divides in the world. Not everybody can afford to leave. Yes, you have U.K. passport holders and Canadian passport holders but a lot of young people aren't going to have the means to make it to Canada, the U.K. or the United States. A lifeboat scheme that particularly looks after them because of their participation would be very welcome.

[Mabel Tung]

I also want to add that a lot of Canadians of Hong Kong descent would love to help. We have a lot of capacity here. We have a lot of volunteers who are able to help them when they arrive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron. I've given you the 10 seconds you had lost during the previous turn.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Ha, ha!

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

We'll now go to Mr. Harris for two and a half minutes.

Mr. Harris, go ahead, please.