Canada-China Relations Committee on Nov. 9th, 2020

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for those questions.

I was going to ask similar questions regarding what a lifeboat policy would look like and how you would envisage that.

Could you explain what type of special visa you were referring to, Ms. Tung, that would be possible? We were told by the consular official that it was not possible for visas to be granted to non-passport holders.

[Mabel Tung]

They had a special visa in the past; we're talking about 30 years ago. They had a special visa that was issued by the embassies of a lot of countries, which was granted to past protesters so they could leave. Of course, I'm not going to discuss in public the kinds of details of those visas. That was done in the past, and I'm sure there are records about how they were able to do that.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

You've talked about the concerns of Canadians of Chinese descent in Canada who are Canadian citizens, and you have said that they have fears. I want you to let us know that this is from your own personal experience of talking to people, people you encounter in the Vancouver area, who are, not just by rumour, actual.... This is something that's very real in terms of people in the Chinese community.

[Mabel Tung]

Yes. A lot of times, people talk to me during our rallies. We've had over 20 rallies in the last two years. They will say, “I'm sorry, but I can't come next time. This is my last time, because I have family in Hong Kong and a grandmother in China and I don't want them to be intimidated by the police or anybody in China.”

This is a real thing that is happening in Hong Kong for people who live in Canada. I'm sure it has happened before, because in the Amnesty International reports a lot of Chinese from mainland China are kind of quiet because their families are in China. The agents—or whatever they are—talk to them, to some of the people, and say, ”Oh, I know you have two daughters, and how are they doing?” That is really to threaten them. They will keep their mouths shut and not say anything.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Ms. Tung.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Ms. Tung.

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

This concludes our first panel. On behalf of all members, I'd like to express our thanks to Ms. Tung, Mr. Nelson and Mr. Tsang, who was not able to stay for the entire hour.

We very much appreciate your testimony. Thank you very much.

[Mabel Tung]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Madam Clerk, how long will we have to suspend in order to set up for the witnesses in the next round?

[The Clerk]

Maybe just for two minutes. It's just a matter of bringing them in and doing a sound check with them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

The meeting is suspended for two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I call the meeting back to order.

Welcome back to all members.

Welcome to our new witnesses.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the new witnesses.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. However, once members are asking you questions, you can respond immediately. You don't have to wait for me to recognize you.

At the end of the time, I will intervene. I'm afraid I may have to interrupt sometimes to go on to the next member.

I remind you that all interventions by members and witnesses must be addressed to the chair.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either floor, English or French.

Please speak slowly and clearly.

When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

I would now like to go to our witnesses. We have with us, as an individual, Mr. Bill Chu, founder of Canadians for Reconciliation, and, also as an individual, Mr. Victor Ho, retired editor-in-chief for the Sing Tao Daily, B.C. edition.

Welcome.

Mr. Chu, please proceed with your five-minute opening remarks.

[Bill Chu, Founder, Canadians for Reconciliation, As an Individual]

Chair Regan, I am most honoured to be part of this discussion.

Imagine if thousands of little green men arrived from Mars. Perhaps Canada would have taken this threat assessment more seriously. However, while China is obviously not Mars, it is no longer Pierre Trudeau's notion of China either. Through the previous witnesses and recent global events, I am sure we realize that Canada needs not just some fine tuning with China but a brave, new and comprehensive strategy to face a rising new world order that seems to be bent on changing the global understanding of law, human rights and values. Therefore, it is for the future and soul of Canada that I am sharing my experience as a Hong Kong Canadian in Vancouver.

My awakening to the PRC's undue influences in my own activism began in June 1989, when I participated in organizing a memorial service in Vancouver for the martyrs of Tiananmen Square. Soon after June 4, the Chinese Benevolent Association of Vancouver, abbreviated CBA, joined hundreds of organizations in publicly condemning the CCP's bloody suppression of peaceful students. The Chinese consulate was quick to get the United Front working and “unified” the CBA board to stand in line with the CCP. The switchover enabled the PRC to inherit the same name recognition as an old Chinatown organization and to use it to further its influence in the Chinese community. The CBA soon became one of the key PRC intermediaries in B.C., which wove together an ever-expanding network of clans, diaspora, business, cultural, educational and media groups, a task made easy with identity politics and CCP being the only party in contention.

With PRC's suppression of Hong Kong protesters last year, CBA took on a more visible role, buying front page ads in local Chinese newspapers to defend the national security law and to propagate China's condemnation of Hong Kong protesters seeking the universal values of freedom and democracy. It purported to represent the Chinese community at large, despite the countless Chinese who have migrated to escape the CCP's tyranny. CBA's ads included the names of a few hundred local Chinese organizations and clans. This was ironic since CBA also had been funded generously by Canadian Heritage to host Canada Day celebrations.

In October 2019, rallies were held across Canada to protest the proposed extradition law for Hong Kong. Simultaneously pro-PRC counter-protesters organized efforts to disrupt these rallies. At the symbolic Lennon Wall in Richmond I witnessed a loud and intimidating confrontation involving the words on the wall being torn down and loonies being thrown at a protester. The RCMP who arrived did nothing to the assailants. As a formal complaint to Richmond's RCMP was filed by the victim and was not responded to, I requested a meeting at the RCMP detachment. During our meeting the constable turned out to be no more than a PR man, one unfamiliar with the Chinese Canadian community. Despite his promise, no one received any word back about the case.

Unsettled by the RCMP's indifference, I arranged a meeting with a CSIS officer. He was candid and revealed that, unlike the FBI or MI5, CSIS mainly does research. Their officers do not carry guns and any necessary enforcement or arrests are done by the RCMP. Furthermore, though CSIS prepares national security reports, those reports are sent on an advisory basis to only the few within the federal government's national security committee.

To my surprise, those contents were never shared with other MPs, never mind the thousands of MLAs, mayors and councils.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Chu. I'm sorry to interrupt, but you were over your five minutes. Hopefully, members will have questions that will draw out more of that.

Now we'll go to Mr. Ho, please, for five minutes.

[Victor Ho, Retired Editor-in-Chief, Sing Tao Daily, British Columbia Edition, As an Individual]

It is a great honour for me to present the journalistic experiences and personal observations of foreign government influence on our ethnic Chinese community and especially how the United Front strategy of the Chinese Communist Party, the CCP, is being executed in the Chinese-language mass media circle.

When it comes to foreign government interference in our ethnic Chinese society, the latest case I want to talk about is the Chinese consulate general’s radio speech regarding the national security law, the NSL, of Hong Kong.

Ms. Tong Xiaoling, the Chinese consul general in Vancouver, released her half-hour announcement on this issue on a local Chinese radio station on July 23, 2020. It was programmed in newscast airtime. She simply asked Chinese Canadians to support NSL Hong Kong and said that there are a very few people in Canada trying to slander the NSL and attempting to cause trouble overseas as well. Ms. Tong then elaborated that some local Chinese Canadians pose a threat to those who really love Hong Kongers here and make personal attacks on them.

But the consul general did not mention that the NSL Hong Kong is totally contrary to Canadian core values. She treats Chinese Canadians as Chinese nationals, when of course they are not. She seems to challenge the political allegiance of our ethnic Chinese citizens. Also, she exploits the free airwaves of our broadcaster to convey the political propaganda messages of the Chinese government. To meet diplomatic protocol, she should have made it a paid advertisement.

This event indicates that some of our Chinese-language news media assist in spreading propaganda for foreign governments. The code of ethics of the Society of Professional Journalists states:

Distinguish between advocacy and news reporting. Analysis and commentary should be labelled and not misrepresent fact or context.

I would like the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, the CRTC, to investigate such cases for the sake of protecting the public interest of Canada. Also, we need to safeguard the Chinese community from being infiltrated by political directives from a foreign government.

In regard to the United Front Work Department of the CCP, there are some pro-Beijing commentators of Chinese radio stations spreading one-sided stories, playing as kind of long-time apologists for the Chinese regime. This seems like an orchestrated effort of the UFWD, with the ultimate goal to brainwash or to at least influence our Chinese Canadian audience into accepting the policy from the CCP.

Another obvious result of the UFWD is to establish many overseas social organizations to propagate or to carry out pro-China policy. Local United Front organizations of the CCP are being weaponized to publish newspaper ads, showing the political muscle of the Beijing regime.

Last year, we saw Hong Kong's young people protesting on the streets against the amendment of the fugitive offenders ordinance. They were beaten brutally by the police force. Over 50 local Chinese social groups published a joint statement ad in Chinese newspapers to condemn the Hong Kong protestors. The leading organizations, to name a few, are the Chinese Benevolent Association, the CBA; the Chinese Cultural Centre of Greater Vancouver, the CCC; and the National Congress of Chinese Canadians, the NCCC. Some of the leading figures in such social groups are playing the role of volunteer ambassadors for the Vancouver consulate of China.

As you have just read from news stories, the first person charged under Australia’s foreign interference law is a well-known member of the ethnic Chinese community—

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Ho. I'm sorry to interrupt, but you're over your time.

We will now go to members for questions and comments.

We'll begin with member of Parliament Kenny Chiu for six minutes.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for coming.

Mr. Ho, the Chinese definitions of “nationality” and “citizenship” include many ethnic Chinese who are residing in Canada right now. As we heard from you, in July the consul general of Vancouver from PRC did assert that. What is your proposition for the committee and for the Government of Canada to reassure Canadian citizens of Chinese descent that they will be protected and shielded from any persecution or threats?

[Victor Ho]

I think Canada should consider introducing a foreign interference offence law like the Australian one, and use it to restrict foreign governments from mobilizing local social groups to address foreign interests.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Ho.

Mr. Chu, we know that in Canada, discrimination, hate and racism have long been in existence. Many in the community have felt that the criticism of the People's Republic of China or the Communist Party of China has actually resulted in much of the hate and discrimination. What is your view? What do you propose that the Government of Canada can do to reassure citizens and prevent them from being manipulated by the weaponization of nationalism?

[Bill Chu]

That's an excellent question, as I have been involved in resisting racism for a number of years, mainly in trying to research it as well as to lobby for the recognition of that long history of discrimination against Chinese in B.C., for example. Through public knowledge, all three levels of government expressed formal apologies towards that. All of a sudden I dropped that subject, because I noticed that China was also using that subject to try to propagate their narrow sense of nationalism.

In other words, they are trying to project the image that the Chinese have been victims. They're using some sort of identity politics, as you mentioned in your former question, to try to invite the local Chinese Canadians into their embrace, trying to refer to them as Chinese “nationals”. That is done rather subtly. In my opinion, it is rather ironic, because if you look into the nationality law of China, it actually stipulates that it does not recognize dual citizenship. In other words, once you emigrate from China, technically you are no longer a Chinese national, but somehow, I guess they don't care about their laws. In recent years they have tried to make a new definition of it.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you.

I have a follow-up question on that. As a result of the shadow cast by the citizenship act from the China side, taking people in Canada of Chinese descent into account as their own citizens, as well as the potential for discrimination, racism and hate, there is a significant amount of self-censorship, from the media to community leadership. What's your view on how we combat that from the government, citizen and community levels?

I'd like a brief answer from perhaps Bill first.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

If I could interrupt for just a second, Mr. Chu, could you please lower your microphone below your mouth a bit? It's just a bit too close. Thank you very much.

Please go ahead.

[Bill Chu]

Thank you. I didn't realize it had slipped.

Well, I think on the part of Canada it can help by acknowledging the history, because I think that in popular opinion that history has not been well understood, at least in school textbooks and public discourse. With Canada being a country that's famous for social justice as well as respect for human rights, we should try to make sure that China would not use that as an excuse to say that Chinese here would need protection from China.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chu.

Chair, I'd like to pass my remaining time to Mr. Ho for an answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Ho, you have 40 seconds.

[Victor Ho]

I think Canada should consider introducing some kind of foreign missions act similar to that created in the United States in 1982. This could help to control the political infiltration by foreign countries. The main purpose includes, but is not limited to, the regulation of the activities of foreign missions in Canada in a manner that would protect the foreign policy and national security interests of Canada and the protection of the Canadian public from abuses of privileges and immunities by members of the foreign missions.