Canada-China Relations Committee on Feb. 6th, 2023

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Regarding that, Minister, does the American government not have the same commitment to national security that you described? They shared the information with their people before you shared it with us.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I'm glad you added that qualifier, but I would say you allude to the co-operation between Canada and the United States. Canada and the United States were stitched up on this particular event. We shared intelligence. We coordinated our efforts. As you heard my colleague Minister Anand say, we fully supported the United States' actions in bringing down one of those balloons.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Minister, are you aware of other spy balloons over Canadian territory?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I would say to you and members of this committee that we are always vigilant in terms of potential threats to our airspace, sovereignty and national security.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

That's a non-answer.

Can you commit to this committee to being more transparent or the first to deliver the news in the event this happens again—unlike a few days ago, when we had to wait for American news outlets to confirm it?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

The government will always share and be transparent when it can be, without compromising, in any way, our classified information, the people who work in these agencies or the integrity of operations. Those are there to protect national security and the Canadian people.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Would your government have released the information if the American government had not? Did your government have intentions to release this information, at any point, or did you just confirm it because the Americans did?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

We are always transparent as quickly as we possibly can be, while having regard for the sensitivity of the operations undertaken to protect national security.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

However, you can't tell me whether this has happened before, explain why you weren't the first to deliver the news to Canadians or commit to telling us if this happens again. That's what we're seeing in this committee today, Minister.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

The government will always be transparent as soon as it can be, when it comes to our national security.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Respectfully, that's not transparency, Minister. That's the definition of not being transparent: not sharing this information with the public. It's the opposite of transparent.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

We have shared information and coordinated with our allies. I would argue the timing of our making that information available was generally contemporaneous to the events themselves.

We'll continue to share information without compromising the classified nature of the information we receive, because we have people in the line of duty. There are lives at stake. There are techniques at stake. This is complex stuff, as you well appreciate, Ms. Dancho. We are up front with Canadians as soon as we can be.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Were there lives at stake with the spy balloon?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Excuse me, Ms. Dancho, but your time has expired.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

He can probably answer that.

Were there lives at stake as a result of the spy balloon? It's quite significant that he mentioned it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Answer very quickly.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

We had people in the field who work in a wide range of agencies, including the Canadian military. Yes, they put their lives at stake every day to protect our national interest.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

We'll now go to Mr. Cormier for five minutes or less.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, I will give my time to my colleague and our guest tonight, Mr. Chiang.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Cormier, for allowing me to use your time.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for appearing tonight in front of this committee.

My question is directed to Commissioner Lucki.

As you know, we've been talking about the alleged police stations in Canada, three of them in the GTA. One of them is in my riding of Markham—Unionville. I have a constituency base that is 66% of Chinese origin. The concerns my constituents have about this issue.... They've been coming to me and asking me for help on this.

I want to find out whether something is being done. We know these places exist. As you mentioned, you had uniformed police officers go there, but has anything been done to prevent any foreign interference? What safety precautions are there for our residents?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Obviously, engagement with the public is one of the first things that we need to do, because our goal is to ensure that the public feels safe in their own communities. We need to build that trust and confidence, where possible, and enforce the relative legislation or disrupt those activities. As I said, because the investigation is ongoing, we have to protect the methods and techniques that are used in the investigation and safeguard the witnesses, possibly with personal or sensitive information. We don't get into the specifics. What I can say is that there is an investigation opened in the four police stations that have been identified in Canada.

Obviously, there are four in Canada, but we actually work with our Five Eyes partners and other partners of law enforcement across the world, because this is bigger than just four police stations in Canada. There are several across the world. We try to look at similarities. We share the information to see if there are any connections with other similar countries.

We work with the police jurisdictions in Canada, because not only do we have to provide awareness and education for the people who could be victims, but there's also education and awareness for the police. Most of this is not in RCMP jurisdiction. It's in big municipalities, where we need to make sure that police can identify the signs in advance of potential foreign interference. We do a lot of that, especially in and around the elections, to describe what some of that interference might look like and for police to be in tune with that, so that they can report it.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Following up on your answer, do you have a timeline? You mentioned that it's an active investigation. Is there a timeline for its conclusion?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

No. They are quite complex investigations, but what I would do is encourage any of the people who are coming to you, who don't feel safe.... If they're in obvious immediate danger, they should call 911. If they aren't and they would like to share information, that's the best way we can take this investigation to fruition. Instead of just simply disrupting the activity, if we can bring that to charges, that is also a sign of success.

We need information from the public, but they need to feel safe, so we have to make sure we provide a venue where they can feel safe.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you, Mr. Chiang.

We will now go to Mr. Trudel, for two and a half minutes or less.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Commissioner Lucki, it goes without saying that police stations in Toronto are spying. They are targeting Chinese dissidents, especially those who advocate for Uighurs in China. What measures are you putting in place to prevent Canadian citizens who are simply human rights activists from being sent back to China?