Canada-China Relations Committee on Nov. 27th, 2023

[Newton Shortliffe]

Thank you for the question.

We are not doing the same job as CSE. CSIS is using its own mandate to investigate the kinds of cyber-actors that we see engaged in activities that pose a threat to the security of Canada. We are working to understand what they are targeting and why. Within the extent of our mandate, we then work with CSE. If there are any measures we can take to help reduce the threat under our mandate, we will do so, and communicate that to the Government of Canada.

The difference is that CSE now has responsibility through the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security to, for example, develop the policies the Government of Canada has that will help to protect our electronic systems. Also, they have the responsibility for mitigation measures and for taking the actions that might be required if there is an event or an intrusion.

We work very closely with CCCS, the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security—I should be careful about acronyms—and with CSE, and when there's an intrusion we'll often work very closely together in our mandates to understand what is happening and to contribute to the Government of Canada's understanding, but our role is quite different, and we have different tools that we can use in Canada. For example, we can run operations that will help provide access to information that CSE might not be able to get on its own when it comes to threats to Canadians.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I've just realized that we use a lot of acronyms. What does CSE stand for? I started this, not you.

[Newton Shortliffe]

The CSE is the Communications Security Establishment. It is Canada's national signals intelligence agency.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

They're based more with DND. My understanding was always that CSIS was in Canada and CSE could do things abroad.

[Newton Shortliffe]

I should be careful because I don't want to speak for CSE—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Yes, I know.

[Newton Shortliffe]

—but certainly they're a signals intelligence agency. They work very closely with their foreign partners, within the Five Eyes in particular but with other foreign partners as well. Their law does require them to be externally oriented. My understanding is that their ability to conduct any kind of activity in Canada is extremely circumscribed by law.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Cormier for the rest of the time.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

My question is for Mr. Smith or Mr. Oberwarth.

You said that the women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces seemed to be happy to participate in the strategy, but that a shortage of human or material resources was preventing you from doing more. I may have misunderstood. Can you say a little more about that?

[MGen Gregory Smith]

I am going to talk about rebuilding our workforce. After the pandemic, we were short more than 10,000 people, as the chief of the defence staff mentioned. We are in the process of rebuilding that workforce. When Canada's Indo-Pacific strategy, or at least the part of the strategy concerning the Canadian Armed Forces, was written, the fact that we have a personnel shortage was taken into account.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Right.

What improvements could be made to the strategy or to the work you are doing?

[MGen Gregory Smith]

I am not prepared to say that improvement is needed. We started this work a year ago now, on November 26, 2022. There are some things that we have done fairly quickly, for example, deploying three ships, but in terms of relationships, that takes time. It will take years to organize annual exercises with other countries, create partnerships, and enhance capacities. The funding for the strategy is spread over five years, and we will be re‑examining it at the end of that period. That is what we are doing now. We re‑examine it when each event takes place, to make sure it is working well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

We will now go to Mr. Bergeron, again for about three minutes, sir.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Canada has ended the “whisky war” with Denmark over Hans Island. More seriously, China is claiming to be an Arctic power and, with Russia, could be a threat to Canada. To make things even more complicated, our main ally does not entirely recognize Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic.

In this somewhat murky context, do we have the resources to ensure Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic?

[MGen Gregory Smith]

I am by no means an expert on issues involving the Arctic. However, I can say that we have resources for participating in activities. You may be familiar with Operation Nanook, which is a large sovereignty exercise and ensures a presence in the north.

[BGen Cayle Oberwarth]

I also want to mention that we are working with our allies in this region. Every year for the last several years, we have participated in the Joint Pacific Multinational Readiness Center exercises, including an exercise that takes place in Alaska, in which Canada has participated together with its U.S. allies.

Normally, when we talk about exercises in the Indo-Pacific region, we think about ships or planes. In this exercise, however, we used soldiers from the land forces and we also used the air force. As Major‑General Smith said, we use exercises like Operation Nanook to bring our other allies to take part in our exercises in northern Canada, to maintain a presence there.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

My question is a companion piece to the one that Mr. Chong asked a little earlier. We know that much of what goes on in the Arctic is not visible, because it happens under the ice. Do we have the submarine resources needed to ensure Canada's sovereignty in the Arctic?

[MGen Gregory Smith]

Mr. Chair, the Arctic is an environment where it is hugely difficult to conduct operations and keep up to date on what is happening, not just for the military, but for everyone. However, we have certain capacities for maintaining a presence and providing us with an overview of the situation in that region.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.

We'll now go to Mr. Boulerice.

I believe I shorted you in your time last time, sir, so go ahead and take an extra question.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I want to continue with my questions about cybersecurity. The federal government has forces that enable it to defend itself against the cyber-attacks that may come up in Canada. I would like the representatives of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service to tell us what aspects they think we should invest in, or devote more resources to, in order to forearm ourselves against the cyber-attacks coming from that region of the world.

[Newton Shortliffe]

Thank you for that question.

Unfortunately, I think it has to be put to our colleagues at the Communications Security Establishment and the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security.

CSIS is responsible for investigating cybersecurity threats within Canada. We try to understand the threats and the reasons they exist, regardless of where they come from. On the other hand, our colleagues are the ones who have to examine these threats and find solutions to them, so I recommend that you ask them that question.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to ask the National Defence representatives a question. We are talking about having a marine presence in the Indo-Pacific region. One question comes to mind. In another discussion, the question of supply ships arose at some point. We do not have 10,000 frigates, nor do we have 10,000 supply ships.

Gentlemen, do you think we are sufficiently equipped to be capable of properly resupplying our ships in a location that is actually pretty far away?

[BGen Cayle Oberwarth]

The Indo-Pacific region is so vast that we always need to work with our allies. We use our ship Astérix to resupply our ships. However, we also use it to help our allies and partners in the region. In return, when we do not have a ship available, we can use our partners'.

It is rare for our ships to be all alone in the region. They are frequently part of a large fleet, within which we work with our allies and our partners. Our plans concerning this region and these long sea voyages are made with them. It really is important to make sure we provide for six or seven ships in our plan.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is all for me.