Canada-China Relations Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

In that vein, where are we on...? You had some remarks in your opening, Mr. Thoppil, but is there anything else you could add for the benefit of the committee on the question of what the Canadian government is currently doing to ensure the safety and security of Canadians living in China? To what extent are we collaborating with like-minded allies who have similar concerns about their own citizens?

[Paul Thoppil]

I'm going to turn to my colleague Jennie Chen to respond.

[Jennie Chen, Executive Director, Greater China Political and Coordination, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

As Paul alluded to earlier in his opening statement, the health and well-being of Canadians in China is top of mind and of utmost importance to the Government of Canada. We provide consular assistance to Canadian individuals and their families seeking support in China.

As each consular case is unique, a tailored approach is often required, and consular officials must adapt interventions to each local context and circumstance. These include advocacy efforts for the detainees' well-being and their fair and equal treatment under local laws, as well as for access to medical care and basic nutrition.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I see that I only have about a minute and a half left, so I do want to jump to the co-operate C, if you like.

On the question of climate change, to what extent does Canada co-operate in any way with China to counter issues of CO2 emissions and climate change more generally? I ask that question simply because I think it's a topic of concern, obviously, when it comes to emissions. The emissions of China are serious indeed, and finding ways to co-operate with regimes, even when we have strong differences, is an important thing.

[Paul Thoppil]

Mr. Chair, the member's comment is absolutely correct.

China and the broader Indo-Pacific region contributes 53% of the carbon emissions in the world. There is no pathway to address this issue for the sake of our children and our children's children unless we solve it in this region first.

Therefore, on global common issues, regardless of our differences in the bilateral relationship with regard to human rights and other values and our concerns on domestic security, we must find a pathway to engage with one-fifth of humanity on issues of concern such as climate change and biodiversity. This is why it was very important that when the Chinese presidency for COP 15 didn't find an ability—due to its application of its zero-COVID policy—to host COP 15, Canada decided to step up to host it in Montreal in December.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

There you go, Mr. Thoppil. You finally got a full answer in. Good.

Mr. Bergeron, it's your turn now for two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Thoppil, I would like to come back to the new attitude or new phase of Chinese policy regarding Taiwan that seems to have been initiated recently.

I do not want to ask you to offer us an exclusive about Indo-Pacific policy, but I would like to ask you whether Canada is planning to adapt its policy on Taiwan to this new approach that the PRC seems to be taking to Taiwan.

As well, without necessarily revisiting the one China policy, might there eventually be a desire to affirm Taiwan's right to live in peace alongside its imposing neighbour?

[Paul Thoppil]

Let me address that question by just informing members about what we are doing to support Taiwan.

First, on January 9, 2022, we confirmed the launch of exploratory discussions on a possible foreign investment promotion and protection agreement with Taiwan.

Second, on a global co-operation and training framework, we are identifying speakers on several occasions who engage with Taiwan and other parties associated with that initiative.

Third is the Safer Skies Forum. In terms of the importance of Taipei flight information, in terms of navigation supports, and as part of our Safer Skies agenda, we engage with Taiwan, and we are bringing them under that initiative in order to give them a voice related to safe navigation.

Fourth is indigenous co-operation. On December 10, 2021, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Chinese Taipei endorsed the Indigenous Peoples Economic and Trade Cooperation Arrangement. We also have an active MOU between the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network and Taiwan Indigenous Television. We work very closely at APEC on a number of conversations whereby we are like-minded. Specifically, we have worked together to jointly fund a women and the economy subfund.

These are just a few examples of how we engage with Taiwan in terms of the robust bilateral relationship that underpins our existing policy framework.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.

Now we go to Ms. McPherson for two and a half minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Bergeron, those two and a half minutes go very fast.

I'm going to go back and ask a few more questions of our colleagues from IRCC if I could.

In my last question I asked how IRCC deals with those who have a criminal record. We were told that if it wasn't illegal in Canada, it wouldn't be a problem, but of course that's not what people are often charged with. They're often charged with things that are considered illegal, even though what they were doing was protesting for democracy in their country.

What is IRCC doing to accommodate that and to acknowledge that is the reality?

[Glen Linder]

Our officers are absolutely trained in this kind of issue. They have field experience in these countries and they look at each individual file on a case-by-case basis, understanding very well the context from which the applicant is coming. Each file is reviewed case by case. The specific circumstances are looked at and we take an extremely careful and thoughtful approach to each one of these cases to ensure that we get to the right decision and that we're not inadvertently excluding someone who absolutely should not be found inadmissible to Canada.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Many Hong Kongers will fall out of status after the open work permits or study permits expire, as they don't meet the requirements for the PR pathways. Will the PR pathways be expanded to meet the needs of the community, and will there be other options for Hong Kongers to extend their work and study in Canada?

[Glen Linder]

We have all our regular pathways in place, and it is expected that a large number of people who have come in on temporary resident pathways will in fact subsequently be able to qualify, in permanent resident pathways or in other pathways, to be able to stay in Canada if they choose to do so.

I would also add that the temporary resident pathway is currently scheduled to end in the beginning part of 2023, but we have that actively under review with the intent of making a determination as to whether and when that should be extended, and for how long.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Do you feel that because there are such delays within IRCC right now, there are risks to people whose lives are in danger at this time?

[Glen Linder]

In terms of folks leaving Canada, there is nothing we are doing to require them to leave Canada. On the contrary, we do have these pathways in place and we have a number of measures in place to allow them to stay, even if it appears that their permits have expired if they have another application in place.

If it would be helpful, Mr. Chair, I can turn it over to my colleague, Mr. Gionet, who can explain in greater detail some of the measures that we have in place to allow folks to stay while we continue the processing of their new applications.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Ms. McPherson will have another opportunity.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Unfortunately, sir, that's just how fast two and a half minutes goes.

Thank you very much, though.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Yes, we are out of time for that segment, but again, save the answer, Mr. Gionet, because I believe you'll have that opportunity before we're done this half hour.

We now go to Mr. Hallan, for five minutes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

It will be Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to go back to this issue of these three police stations being operated by the People's Republic of China here in Canada. The list of these police stations has actually been published by state media of the PRC, so it's no secret that these three stations exist, two of them in Markham and one in Scarborough.

As you, Mr. Epp, have pointed out, they are illegal in Canada. They're not only illegal. They're a violation of our sovereignty, a violation of international law and a violation of any diplomatic norms that are out there.

I want to know what action the Canadian government is taking with respect to the presence of these three stations here in Canada? It's not just the RCMP's responsibility. It's also Global Affairs. It's also Citizenship and Immigration. It could very well be the case that people accredited to the diplomatic mission of the People's Republic of China are working in or out of these three stations.

First, is GAC investigating whether the hundreds of diplomats accredited to the embassy and other missions here in Canada are involved with these three police stations?

[Weldon Epp]

Thank you for the question. I want to acknowledge and accept the premise that there are a number of roles and responsibilities here. Global Affairs Canada does have an important role here.

Without trying to frustrate the line of questioning, I just want to underscore the fact that the investigative role is critical here before we take important and anticipated diplomatic actions in response. It's pretty critical because it's very important for us to have the basis on which to undertake decisions that we may need to make in a diplomatic sphere. That investigative role is not one that I can speak to today.

I'm not trying to.... I accept the premise that there will be an important piece—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

That's fine. I understand. It would be great to have greater clarity from the government, from the whole of government, on this issue. I think it's a pressing issue that concerns our sovereignty.

My question now is for the immigration department.

Is your department investigating whether the individuals working out of or in these stations have the appropriate status to work in Canada, or whether they have status at all? Is there an investigation going on right now to determine their immigration status, because if these individuals have come here from the People's Republic of China under false pretenses, those visas should be revoked.

[Jean-Marc Gionet]

Thank you for the question. As my colleague from Global Affairs mentioned, we're taking the issues very seriously, and there are discussions with partners. It has been rightly noted. If issues arise while foreign nationals are—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I understand. Thank you.

My question is for the Department of National Defence. As was pointed out earlier, the HMCS Vancouver recently sailed through the Taiwan Strait. What co-operation, if any, is taking place between either the Canadian Forces or the Department of National Defence and Taiwan?

[BGen Éric Laforest]

There's none. When the Vancouver sailed through, it really just sailed through from point A to point B. That's what happened then.