Canada-China Relations Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses, the representatives, for being with us today.

I want to ask a little bit more about these recent reports of sort of satellite police stations being set up in Canada. There appears to be evidence of physical street addresses where there are these supposed three satellite police offices in the Toronto area representing police forces of the People's Republic of China. I do think Canadians would be very surprised and frankly disturbed to learn that.

The representative from Global Affairs has confirmed that there is an investigation going into this. Is that correct?

[Weldon Epp]

That's correct.

We are waiting for evidence, not just from media reports but from operations under way. I won't speak further to the detail of that. I think specific questions on that should be directed to the RCMP.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Could you confirm, if you found out that these reports were, in fact, true, that it would be announced publicly or reported publicly?

[Weldon Epp]

I would have to defer to the RCMP as to whether they would make that announcement publicly or not.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Global Affairs is working with the RCMP, and the RCMP is leading the investigation into this. Is that correct?

[Weldon Epp]

We are working closely with all relevant partners to understand whether there are grounds to these very disturbing allegations. Obviously, if there are, we will be taking the relevant actions in our lane, which is the diplomatic lane.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Would you be able to outline who those relevant partners are that you're working with?

[Weldon Epp]

Again, given that this session is not in camera, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to discuss operational details here.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

All right.

If proven to be true, these satellite offices would be completely illegal and would represent a significant violation of Canada's national sovereignty. Is that correct?

[Weldon Epp]

The activity that's being alleged would be entirely illegal and totally inappropriate, and it would be the subject of very serious representations and follow-up diplomatically.

Thank you.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Is there a time frame for this investigation? Can you provide an estimate of when that would conclude? Are we talking days, weeks, months or years?

[Weldon Epp]

I'm afraid I'm unable to answer that question.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

You don't have any sense of an estimate at all.

[Weldon Epp]

I can assure the members of this committee that this is a serious issue, and that addressing it, determining whether there are any grounds to the allegations and then dealing with it is a top priority. Of course, it would be undertaken as quickly as possible.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Are there any Chinese law enforcement officials located in Canada who are currently registered with Global Affairs?

[Weldon Epp]

There are none that I'm aware of.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

To your knowledge, has there been any collaboration between the RCMP domestically with law enforcement from the People's Republic of China at any time in Canada over the last five years?

[Weldon Epp]

I can't answer that question specifically in the way it was phrased. However, what I can tell the committee is that Canada has historically had operational police liaison partnerships between Canada and the PRC, including police liaison officers who are accredited and have been provided diplomatic status to undertake information-sharing roles. That has contributed in the past to dealing with issues like the smuggling of fentanyl and other activities that are not in the interest of Canada.

That police liaison work depends on a high trust between both agencies, and it is very much limited to a prescribed diplomatic liaison role. It would not in any way justify or cover the kind of activity that's being alleged in these media articles.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you.

To switch gears a bit, I'd like to talk about the quadrilateral security dialogue, as well as AUKUS. These are two agreements for which Canada has not been provided a seat at the table, and they're key alliances in the Indo-Pacific. In the opening remarks from all officials today, it was outlined how important it is that Canada work with allies to address the rising threat that the world acknowledges is the People's Republic of China.

Global Affairs, can you let the committee know if it is a priority for the current government to get a seat at the table at the quad and AUKUS?

[Paul Thoppil]

Let me start on AUKUS, if I may—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Again, sir, answer briefly if you can. Thank you.

[Paul Thoppil]

AUKUS serves Canada's long-term strategic interest in the Indo-Pacific by improving the capabilities of key allies, and it allows for a stronger, more unified approach. However Canada has no plans to acquire nuclear submarines, which is the centrepiece of the agreement.

What we have a keen interest in is taking part in discussions on advancing applied research and innovation in emerging technologies such as AI and quantum computing—areas where Canada has strengths and can contribute to the partnership.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you very much.

We'll have Mr. Fragiskatos for five minutes, please.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the officials for being here tonight.

My first question relates to China in the first place; however, it is a general question as well.

Mr. Thoppil, you talked about the four Cs. This falls into the challenge category. In response to the case of the two Michaels, Canada emerged as a leading voice against so-called hostage diplomacy.

Where are we on continuing to advance that issue? How are we doing it? Is it mostly, for example, in multilateral forums like the United Nations or other places? Is there anything you could put to the committee on that?

[Paul Thoppil]

What we evidenced through the saga of the Michaels was one aspect of China's course of diplomacy, which was the use of arbitrary detention. The Prime Minister indicated that, as well as the other one that was applied during that saga, which was economic coercion.

We moved forward, not necessarily in terms of planning or discussing how to seek their eventual release, which we were very pleased with—and I know all of Canada is—but how to work with allies to ensure that we mitigated this inappropriate behaviour again. We have used our diplomatic network to engage with countries around the world bilaterally, regionally and multilaterally. This started with a launch in February 2021 of the “Declaration against Arbitrary Detention in State-to-State Relations” to condemn, deter and put an end to this practice worldwide.

To date, I'm very pleased to say that 68 countries and the European Union have endorsed the declaration. We continue to engage with other countries every day in our conversations to add to that list going forward.