Canada-China Relations Committee on April 8th, 2024

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Excuse me.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Look, I don't know if you want me to answer or not. I guess that's up to you.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

At the Wuhan Institute of Virology, they didn't have Ebola until the scientists at the national microbiology lab sent it to them. They did not have it.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

There have been regular outbreaks of Ebola over the last 20 years.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Did they have it in Wuhan before it was sent from Canada or not? It's a simple question.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

What I would say is this. Ebola exists today. It has existed for decades as a deadly pathogen, and it doesn't need to be weaponized. It already is.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Minister, I didn't ask you for a lecture on Ebola.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Mr. Naqvi, go ahead.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I think this committee was going so well. Some very thoughtful back-and-forth took place among members from all parties, and all of a sudden I'm seeing a behaviour that I saw from Mr. Ellis at the HESA committee, which is highly inappropriate. I think it's undervaluing the work this committee is doing on this very important topic.

Pose a question, wait for the answer and get the answer. You may not like the answer, but at least give an opportunity to have a respectful discussion between the member and the speaker. I just—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I didn't ask for a lecture on Ebola. Thanks.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you for interrupting. Mr. Ellis just made my point by interrupting another member on a point of order.

Did you come here with a certain attitude, or are you here to make sure there is respectful conversation happening, as was being done by other members from your own party and other members of the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

I think that—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Perhaps I could have just 10 seconds, Mr. Chair, to respond. Can I have a 10-second runway to answer the question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Well, no. We've stopped the clock because I want Dr. Ellis to have his full five minutes.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.

The question—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Dr. Ellis, if I could, please.... Again, this is just for the interest of our interpreters. When we talk over each other, it makes things very difficult for them, so I would ask, out of respect for them, that we keep things orderly.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Yes, maybe if the minister would answer the question. We'll move on from there. I guess that's the question we'll leave.

Are there other thousand talents program scientists working in other Canadian labs run by the Canadian government?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

None that we are aware of, no, and I can say that there's no weaponization—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate that answer.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

To the other one, there's no evidence of weaponization—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Chair, are we going to have this guy answer the question? Once he does, he doesn't need to keep talking. He answered the question. I'm quite satisfied with that.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Well, I was attempting to answer the question. I didn't get a chance to answer before because you were interrupting me, so I don't—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

To move on from that, then, have you done an extensive investigation to understand if there are other thousand talents program scientists?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

That would not be conducted by me. I would refer you to intelligence officials for what actions they have taken.