I'm not convinced that China seeks to overthrow the existing international order or to replace the United States as the main driver behind the existing rules. It is important, when it comes to assessing China's behaviour, to compartmentalize the discussion a bit, focus on breaking down certain domains of the international order, and then try to assess whether China's behaviour is merely pushing for a particular interpretation of the rules that doesn't align with our interests or our preferences or, alternatively, seeking to overthrow the rules. I think there is a nuance, and there is a difference. Here, China's behaviour, insofar as I can tell.... It is not as clear that China is pushing for alternate conceptions of the rules the way Russia is doing it.
On October 18th, 2022. See this statement in context.