Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I call this meeting to order, this being the 14th meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Just before we go to our witnesses today, I'm going to go to the last part of the business and ask for some guidance. On Wednesday we do not have any witnesses. It would be my suggestion that we do the notice of motion from Maka Kotto, the notice of motion from Charlie Angus--I think Charlie has two motions--and there is a motion that came in late on Friday from Mauril Bélanger. I would suggest that we hold our Wednesday meeting debating those motions and also setting our schedule of where this committee will go in the next few meetings.

Perhaps someone would make a motion that we do that.

Yes, sir.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

May I ask a couple of questions first, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Yes, Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

On the matter of the notice of motion that I gave, Mr. Chairman, which was that this committee recommend to the government to reinstate the court challenges program, which happens to be funded through the heritage department, I filed that on Friday. I recall that we had a discussion at the start when we set up the working rules for our committee that a notice of motion given on a Friday could be considered on a Monday or even on the Tuesday, because at the time we were meeting on Tuesdays.

Now that someone has decided we're going to meet on Mondays, we didn't change the notice of motion requirement. So I would have thought that a notice given on Friday, as if I did that in the House, for instance, would be valid for today, the following Monday. Two sleeps is the rule. I slept very little on the weekend, but I did sleep twice.

So I'm wondering if indeed the notice that I gave is in order or not. That's my first question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

It's my understanding, as I've been briefed today, that it was at 2:17 p.m. or something like that on Friday, and then it's two working days--that's what I've been advised--so it is not there today. At the same time, when it is there on Wednesday, I would suggest that we then sit down and debate the situation and make sure that, whatever the rule is, we make it then.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

With all due respect, Mr. Chairman, I think it's important. I believe--I believed then and I still believe now--that I was within the rules as set by the committee. At the time, I thought it was on Fridays at 2:30 p.m. when the House adjourns, and 6 o'clock during weekdays. So if I'm mistaken in terms of both or either, the time and the delay, then I need to know that to be able to function as a member of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I must say that I received the motion this morning. I think the 48-hour notice of motion is that if you were to present it and it was 48 hours, that it should be in the hands of the members of the committee for at least enough time to go over it. I suggest that we could debate a little bit more--

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Is it my responsibility, Mr. Chairman, or the clerk's responsibility to make sure they get into the hands of all of the committee members?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Especially on Friday, it goes back.... I'm not sure what time it got to my office. I didn't receive it. I went home on Friday afternoon. I was gone before 2:30, so I guess that's my fault.

But all I can say is let's settle this once and for all. We can do that on Wednesday. We'll set that precedent, however it will be, and that's how we will carry on from now on.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'm very sorry. There are a number of issues at stake here, let alone the substance of these motions. There's a great deal of concern out there, Mr. Chairman, about some of the cuts that the government has announced last week. If I'm outside of the rules as set by the committee in order to give notice of motion, then I need to know that, because it is my understanding, my belief--if I'm wrong, I'll admit it and I'll recognize it--that I gave notice in due course, in due time for it to be debated today. I did not know at any time of a member of a committee who has the task of distributing the motion to all the members.

I'm under the impression, from having been on a number of committees, that I have a responsibility to get it to the clerk. I even provided it in both official languages, on top of that. Was I erring? Did I not respect the provisions as they were set out by the committee? I think it's important I know that in order to be able to function properly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Yes, Mr. Abbott.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Maybe I can add a little clarity, or at least my recollection of our discussion.

I think Mr. Bélanger put his finger on it. When we discussed this originally as a committee, we were going to be meeting on a Tuesday. So the question was, if it was put into the system on a Friday, would it clear? If we take a look at the 48-hour rule, if hypothetically we had a meeting on Tuesday morning, and it was put in on Friday afternoon, it wouldn't be 48 hours. I believe that is what our discussion, as a committee, focused on, and we said no, let's waive that.

The fact that the meeting has now been moved from Tuesday to Monday is what has fouled up this previous agreement. I'm sure that we, as committee members, can come to an amicable agreement this coming Wednesday as to what the best rule would be so that the opposition can do their job.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

[Inaudible--Editor]...if I'm not mistaken, and if I am, let me know. We would not count working days; we'd count sleeps. Therefore, notice given on Friday--two sleeps--means it's receivable on Monday.

If I'm wrong, let me know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My understanding from past practice is that it's been two working days. I don't know if we need to debate this. We can get the chair to look into past practice and just deliver it to us, but my understanding was that it was two working days. So it would be tomorrow.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Is there a motion that we carry these motions over to our Wednesday meeting?

It is moved by Mr. Angus...oh, did you have a question?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a concern. I believe if we take the motions together, they lay out a number of serious issues that we would have to address. I would like to be assured that if we do hold it over to Wednesday, we'll devote the meeting to it. That would probably influence decisions that we would be making from that meeting in terms of future business, because many of these will be the important things we want to debate.

So I don't have a problem--if we're going to take the meeting to do that, so we can fully do it. I just want to make sure this is the intention of the chair, that we would have a full meeting where we could lay out a plan for moving forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, referring to Mr. Angus' motions, there are two of them, and both of them request that officials from either Heritage Canada or the Canadian Museums Association attend here. Both of them seem to focus on eliciting more information from those officials to determine whether any cuts will be made, and if so, who they will impact. If we're going to debate the other motions, which are perhaps in some ways more substantive and affect the funding that may or may not have been cut for a number of organizations, it seems to me we should first get the information; we should first hear from the witnesses themselves.

You made a suggestion earlier on that perhaps we should wait until we have the minister and her officials here. It seems to me we should also wait until we have members of the Canadian Museums Association here so they can also comment on whether these cuts are going to impact their operations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Right now before the committee we have four motions pending. I've made the suggestion that Wednesday we can debate them. I think your points are valid, and they will be debated on that day. It is my suggestion as chair that we put those motions forward on Wednesday and have a full debate.

Today, I would like to get on with our witnesses and copyright. So if someone would entertain a motion, I will, as chair, say that there will be a full debate on these motions on Wednesday.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

If I could follow up on that, we'll be debating on motions for which we may have an absence of information. That's my concern.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

My point is that they're valid motions; they're motions put forward. And this committee will entertain those motions.

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

To clarify for Mr. Fast, it's a request from our committee to ask people to come so that we can hear from them. What more information would we need on that motion? Either we support having them come and hearing from them, or we don't support having them come.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Actually, I'm not referring to your two motions, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

To bring the Canadian Museums Association.