Evidence of meeting #19 for Canadian Heritage in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was crtc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Thank you. You're time is up.
Mr. Simms, it's good to have you back.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
It's good to be back, sir.
I have a quick follow-up on the comment brought up earlier. Whether you call them informal meetings or closed-door meetings in this particular case, don't you think, as was suggested by my Conservative colleague, that they negate the notion of an arm's-length agency?
4:30 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
No, I don't. I think that we have, for instance, budgetary matters to discuss with the minister. The minister, after all, has to sign our estimates. Frankly, in my term of office, there's never been an issue, but I think the minister has a right to be informed if there are new programs. A new do-not-call list has been attached to our responsibility; that has budgetary implications. All kinds of things need to go on simply for good administration.
I hope and I'm obliged, as the chair of a quasi-judicial agency, to make sure that nothing but what is necessary for sound administration and communication is passed back and forth. I don't think any of it has been anything but that.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
There's one quote in here that talks about “encouraging programming that respects Canadian values with regard to matters such as equality and human rights”. I'm trying to pin down the role of the CRTC when it comes to regional programming. Many technologies do not exist outside of urban areas. How do you see that? To me it's a challenge, given that I am an MP from a rural area.
4:30 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
It is, absolutely, and I hear you. The act definitely uses terms like “national”, “regional”, and “local” all the time--and “multilingual” and “bilingual” and “multicultural”. It is a multi-faceted balancing act; we have to try to balance and give effect to all of those.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
You have a passage in here, certainly, that talks about that in the major cities and everything else, but I don't see a lot here about regions that are struggling to keep up with technology in the policy--
4:30 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
That was a reference to diversity of population, to the demographics, but it isn't confined to the major urban centres. Those were just examples from the major urban centres.
We have regional groups and local groups before us all the time, saying we ought to do this or that for the local community and for the regions. You try to balance it as well as you can.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
If I were to say to you that conventional—
4:30 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
By the way, in TV review--excuse me--as I mentioned, we are giving special attention to the situation of small-market broadcasters, who, more than any others, have been affected by satellites and so on. That would be a very particular examination, and ongoing. As you know, we've taken measures to assist small-market broadcasters who are independent of the large ownership groups, in terms of carriage on the satellite and in terms of a programming fund that's been set up for that.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
I'm sorry, if I could stop you right there, I don't have a lot of time.
Concerning conventional broadcasters versus the pay and specialty services, on the broad spectrum of revenue sources, do you think conventional TV is being shut out here?
4:30 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
I'm not sure I catch your drift.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
From my understanding about the collection of fees, which is a somewhat contentious issue, conventional broadcasters do not collect fees, say, from a BDU.
4:30 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Subscriptions.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Subscription fees; my apologies to BDUs. Okay.
4:30 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
That's an issue before us.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
When are we going to get some clarity around that?
4:35 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
The submissions have been filed in writing, the hearing starts November 27, and I think a decision will be out in the second quarter of next year.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
In regards to that study again and paying specialty services, I find that in many cases the CRTC made a ruling to license a particular service. That particular service evolves over time, and the market forces it to evolve into something else.
But the CRTC doesn't seem to say no, you can't do that anymore. We sanctioned you to do this, and now here you are....
I'll give you an example: prime TV. I remember years back when prime TV was supposed to be programming for seniors. But yet it has evolved into reruns of popular shows from the 1970s and 1980s, so it's kind of a different....
4:35 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
We call this the genre policy. The idea was initially to add diversity to the TV dial. You had your general interest services—CTV, Global, and CBC—and now the specialty services. Like general interest and niche magazines, they were going to sports, news, and so forth, and some of them were licensed with very broad mandates.
The women's network, what isn't legitimately included in that? I think there's one called the Life Network, and they are ones that have pretty broad genres.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Yes, I know you're trying to determine the genres. You call it genre, and I call it bait-and-switch.
4:35 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
We have had complaints about that.
We've also had complaints about one broadcaster treading on the turf of another, and we've made rulings on them over time. It comes up quite often; patrolling the boundaries is something that we have to do.
Sometimes people complain that they've switched formats, we look at that, and then come to a determination one way or the other.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Speaking of bait-and-switch and hook, I believe I'm getting the hook. Is that right?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
October 30th, 2006 / 4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Thank you very much for being here this afternoon. We do appreciate your submission and your willingness to answer the questions that we ask.
I come from a less populated area, a more rural community. An issue has been bubbling under the surface, and now it's coming up more and more. It's the whole issue of the CRTC and the regulation of radio station “B”, allowing radio stations to be established and to broadcast from these communities.
I think it's a real challenge as we look at new technologies as they're being developed, because what has happened in our community specifically is that any radio station that isn't able to come into our community and develop its station...people are going elsewhere to find that type of genre, or that type of music, or talk radio, or whatever. They're turning to the Internet, to satellite radio—to all these other different methods.
I'm curious as to whether this is being looked at. I guess by not allowing these people who want to start these radio stations.... Is there's any talk that this may be driving our population to listen to something that may not have, number one, any Canadian content, and may not have the same values as we would subscribe to as Canadians?
4:35 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
You're raising a very valid point. In new licensing, this is always the balance, particularly in smaller and more remote areas. It's always the issue. The local broadcaster will tell you, if you license that other guy, I'm dead, and you have to look at that. Can the market absorb two stations or three stations?
That is the primordial issue that we look at with radio licensing hearings. He says, I'd rather compete against satellite radio because people aren't going to want to spend $15 a month, and I'm more happy to compete against that than I am against a head-to-head competitor who's going to have local sales, and so on.
In every single case, you're going to have to look at this and come to a judgment. Can the market absorb it, and is the economy strong, or is it likely to be strong for the next five years or so? Then you make a decision, and then you look at the competing applicants for the licence. That is the licensing exercise summed up.
So depending on the community, you can invariably count on the local broadcaster to object to the new entrant. You can also count on them to raise community interest and say, you know, you need it, and somebody's got to make the call. So we send a panel of our commissioners out, and they make the call.