Evidence of meeting #45 for Canadian Heritage in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was programming.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
Well, there were two more. One was on the licensing of the digital media, and secondly was copyright.
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
Yes, those are also fundamental issues, as I indicated earlier, that have to be looked at, and I would be completely out of my depth to say anything but the fact that these are key issues to be dealt with.
Legal Counsel, Canadian Conference of the Arts
With regard to copyright and the CRTC's licensing of new media, the commission has traditionally simply taken an arm's-length or a hands-off role in copyright. It has no role to play whatsoever in copyright. This issue has come up before the commission again and again. It is completely outside the CRTC's jurisdiction, and they've said that several times themselves. So copyright is something that Parliament would address.
Legal Counsel, Canadian Conference of the Arts
Should the CRTC license these new media? Well, for those of you like me who might remember this, there was a time when cable companies were licensed by the Department of Transport. Things can be changed through legislation and statute. Satellite dishes at one point were a new creation. I can recall walking into a CRTC briefing, when I was employed at the CRTC, and seeing this cute little thing about this big, and I was told it was a satellite dish. I said, “Come on, satellite dishes are 15 feet. How can this be a satellite dish?”
Things change, and our approach to them can change. Parliament is extremely fortunate. It has so many gifted lawyers working for it who can deal with the technicalities of developing a licensing regime that will be fair, equitable, and easy to enforce, because without enforcement, of course, why do we do anything?
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
If I may just add, that ties back to your question, Mr. Fast, about regulating. That's the kind of thing we are talking about, the fact that the CRTC should have an overview on all distribution platforms because the CRTC is the body in this country that is responsible for making sure that the objectives of the Broadcasting Act are attained.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Pineau, point 3 of your presentation's executive summary says in French that the CBC is “une institution autonome“. Can you explain in what sense it is autonomous?
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
“Autonome“ is perhaps a poor translation of "arm's length", but that is what is usually understood by an arm's length relationship when we describe the CBC. It keeps its distance from government. It is not legally a Crown corporation. It does not have the status that Radio-France had—I do not know if that is still the case—or French television, which were truly government agencies. The BBC is a Crown corporation, which is legally at arm's length from the government. This is why we are saying that the arm's length should maybe be extended for the appointment of a president.
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
No, it is not financially autonomous, and I never suggested that it was.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Okay. Earlier, you said that the fundamental challenges for the CBC were funding and programming.
What do you think would be the ideal funding method for a public broadcaster?
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
You are going to accuse me of always hiding behind the work to be done, but this is part of the work that will be started over the course of the coming year—a study of the funding model for the system as a whole, and that of the CBC, as part of this system.
All I can tell you now is that we believe, as we have already said, that the CBC, as much as possible—I know that there are philosophical arguments against the CBC pulling back from the advertising market. They exist inside and outside the CBC. There are all kinds of reasons. Even the advertisers will probably say it is not a good idea. If they could get at those who listen to the CBC's radio stations, the CBC would have been commercialized a long time ago, and the stations would no longer be what they are. These are the challenges. We need to find means that are not necessarily limited to parliamentary allocations and to the contracts Mr. Rabinovitch was talking about. There are all kinds of ways to fund the CBC; we must look at the big picture.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
I believe that all of us here are aware of the fact that the CBC suffers from chronic underfunding. Unless I misunderstood, Mr. Rabinovitch said that he manages a budget of more than $1 billion.
Does the Canadian Conference of the Arts feel that the money is used effectively?
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
It would be unfair for us to venture an opinion on that matter. That kind of question should be addressed to the president of the CBC and its board of directors, which is responsible for ensuring that the money is put to good use.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
If I ask the question it is because you told everyone here, at the very beginning, that what is important to you, your main concern, is the cultural policy. In that regard, do you believe that the CBC puts the $1 billion allocated to good use? I am asking the question because you may perhaps say to me that you would prefer programming to focus more on the arts.
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
In that sense, you are right. I was saying that there was a deliberate policy by one government and one legislator, at a certain point in time, to prevent the CBC from increasing its platforms and have it retain its role as a generalist. Thus, the CBC was restricted in several regards, primarily in terms of shelf space because it is unable to broadcast all the programs that it should be broadcasting according to its mandate. Thus, it has one program on this, and another on that, and it tries to do the best it can. It is doing quite well, although not in terms of quantity. In general, the quality of programs is good. So, I do not feel I am being untruthful when I say that, under the circumstances, the CBC is doing a fairly good job. And I am speaking to you as an ordinary citizen.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
What should we be focussing on in terms of programming? News and information, books, drama?
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
Definitely on news and information. There are a multitude of news outlets in this country. However, the public broadcaster that broadcasts across Canada is a very important outlet. That is definitely its primary and most fundamental role. However, providing information cannot supplant entirely its legislated cultural mandate. If that were the case, the legislation would have to be amended.
In my opinion, dramas and variety shows are next in line. They are necessary given that, to a great extent, they represent the lifeblood of the cultural sector. The Government of Canada makes the largest investment in culture in the country by allocating almost $1 billion to the CBC. It represents the bread and butter not only for technicians and administrators, but also for creators, artists, writers, costumers, singers and so forth.
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
In a general sense, yes, if you will.
National Director, Canadian Conference of the Arts
Several hundreds of thousands. Approximately 600,000 people earn a living from the arts, in one way or another. I am not saying that they are all in broadcasting.
