Canadian Heritage Committee on May 15th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our witnesses here this morning.

Welcome to meeting 59 of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our full investigation of the role of the public broadcaster in the 21st century.

This morning, for the first hour we have Jean-Louis Robichaud and Robin Jackson from the Canadian Independent Film and Video Fund. Welcome.

Ms. Jackson, please proceed.

[Robin Jackson, Executive Director, Canadian Independent Film and Video Fund]

Thank you very much.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am the executive director of the Canadian Independent Film and Video Fund. With me is Jean-Louis Robichaud, chair of the fund and former director of the Centre provincial de ressources pédagogiques in Saulnierville, Nova Scotia. We thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.

The Canadian Independent Film and Video Fund is a dynamic private sector funding body that supports non-theatrical film and video projects created by Canadian independent producers to enable lifelong learning. The fund provides financial assistance to documentaries and educational and informational films and videos, and has also supported new media projects.

These programs are destined for use in the educational sector from kindergarten to university; in museums, film festivals, libraries, health services, community groups, and cultural and social services; on educational and specialty television; on airlines and cruise ships; and in the business, home video, and new media markets.

Since 1991, the CIFVF has provided $17.9 million of funding to 900 projects, covering a vast variety of subjects and using a variety of formats, including documentary, docu-drama, drama, animation, and training-instructional. In managing its financial allocations for funding to independent producers, the CIFVF strives to ensure that one-third of the funding available is designated to assist original French-language productions, and approximately two-thirds of the funding is allocated to original English-language projects.

Educational and informational production activity is carried out in all parts of Canada, and the CIFVF makes every attempt to encourage and support productions originating from all regions. To that end, the CIFVF endeavours to ensure that one-fifth of the money available at each deadline is allocated to projects originating from each of the following regions: Atlantic and northern Canada, Quebec, Ontario, the Prairies, and British Columbia.

Please note that the CIFVF is providing responses today to only certain issues raised by the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage on the role of the CBC.

[Jean-Louis Robichaud, President, Canadian Independent Film and Video Fund]

The Canadian Independent Film and Video Fund, the CIFVF believes there is a role for the CBC in the 21st century. Canada's public broadcaster should offer high-quality, distinctive Canadian programming that would not otherwise find a broadcast outlet. It should not be offering programs intended to attract mass audiences, in competition with private broadcasters. We believe that CBC must make a greater commitment to Canadian documentary programming as well as to Canadian theatrical features, including long-form documentaries.

CBC Television's commitment to high-quality Canadian content should be realized through a strengthened relationship with the independent production sector. To this end, the public broadcaster should serve as a model for other broadcasters, by engaging in fair and equitable business practices with respect to contract terms. This means paying adequate licence fees, not requiring unduly lengthy licence terms and sharing equitably in rights exploitation.

The CIFVF is of the opinion that the legislative mandate of the CBC is still valid. We see little merit in the committee's question as to whether or not stronger partnerships should be forged between the Corporation and private broadcasters. We believe that private broadcasters are too commercially driven to espouse the goals of the CBC.

While it is not the purview of the CIFVF per se, we would like to say that there is a need for the continuation of CBC Radio as there is no viable national alternative to it. By this we mean that both CBC 1 and 2 (in English and in French) should be made available on all cable programming distribution services.

This past year, the cable industry applied for and obtained from the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) changes to the Broadcasting Distribution Regulations that accord cable operators greater flexibility with respect to the carriage of local radio stations. While cable providers must still carry CBC and Radio-Canada services, they are only obliged to carry one in each language. In some cases, cable providers have chosen to carry only the Radio One service.

The committee has posed the question of how and to what extent CBC/Radio-Canada programming should be re-examined with respect to different types of programming on the various services of the CBC. CIFVF's comments are limited to documentaries (including arts and cultural programming).

While CBC, SRC, Newsworld, RDI and RCI have been valued financing partners in many CIFVF-funded projects over the years, we have recently observed a marked decrease in its support for documentary programming over the past three years. CIFVF statistics indicate that CBC participation in CIFVF-funded projects has declined from greater than 1 in 3 (35.7% in 2004) to less than 1 in 4 (23.9% in 2005) and now to less than 1 in 5 (19.1% in 2006).

According to statistics reported by the Documentary Organization of Canada (DOC) and the Canadian Film and Television Production Association (CFTPA), the number of hours devoted to documentary programming on CBC English television has declined from a peak of 263 hours in 2003-04 to 122 hours in 2005-06. Both organizations indicate that they have been advised by CBC staff that The Nature of Things will be reduced from its 17-hour series to just nine hours, which will air in the summer. The Passionate Eye also has a decreased presence and both Life and Times, which has been the CBC premier biography series, and the cultural series Opening Night have been cancelled.

At the recent CRTC hearing into CBC's application to acquire effective control of The Canadian Documentary Channel, CBC management said that the Corporation has reaffirmed the importance of documentary programming on English television by appointing an executive director of Documentary Programming.

One of the first results of this renewed emphasis on documentary has been the creation of Doc Zone. While we are pleased to hear of this announcement, these improvements have not been extended to the CBC's specialty channels — Newsworld, RDI and Country Canada — and we are gravely concerned about the restricted resources at their disposal for documentary programming.

The CBC has reduced the opportunities for programming that promote public discourse through the airing of social issue and point-of-view documentaries. Such programming, when it is provided by independent producers, is different from in-house production. Independently-produced documentaries have a high degree of authorial control and expression. They benefit from an independent voice and are not subject to the sort of constraints that are imposed by internal rules and mandates.

This is why the funding support by the CIFVF is so vital. Our organization funds documentaries which are not “main stream” but which provoke thought, public discussion and action on various issues. There is a great need for diversity in this country. Given the CBC's mandate to “contribute to shared national consciousness and identity”, CIFVF believes that Canada's public broadcaster should be responding to this need by broadcasting these types of documentaries.

The Documentary Channel has been one of he few broadcasters in Canada which has provided air time for programs on social issues and point-of-view documentaries. CIFVF sincerely hopes that, if the CRTC approves the CBC's application to take effective control of the Documentary Channel, the Channel will continue to play this important social role.

[Robin Jackson]

We have been advised by our producer clients that while the CBC continues to exhibit documentary programming, more and more of this is in-house production. It is difficult for us to confirm this because the CBC is not required to report on exhibition and expenditure allocations between in-house and independent production. The CIFVF contends that the CBC should be directed to commission more independently produced documentaries.

We are concerned that independent producers are being asked to give away rights on multiple CBC broadcast platforms without appropriate compensation. The bundling of exhibition rights for the main CBC television network and for CBC-owned specialty channels without separate or increased licence fees is of considerable concern to independent documentary producers. If the CBC does take control of the documentary channel, the public broadcaster should be required to negotiate separate licence agreements with independent documentary filmmakers.

The CBC has had a policy of not broadcasting documentaries if the Canadian International Development Agency, CIDA, is involved. Other broadcasters have not had the same problem, and the CIFVF continues to fund projects in which CIDA is a financial partner. The CBC's refusal to show CIDA-financed projects therefore limits the number of possible broadcasters to show projects on international development subjects.

The CBC is requiring independent producers to include their tax credits as part of financing structures. This practice distorts the original intention of the tax credit incentive, which was a guaranteed source of income to be reinvested back into production companies, much like the child tax credit. Because the tax credits are not paid out to the producer until after completion of a project, the producer must seek interim financing from a bank to cover the shortfall in order to finance the project in question.

The CIFVF would like to see a more specific commitment made to regional documentary production or inter-regional co-production for documentaries, so that television audiences can have access to a wide expression of Canadian perspectives, which allows for a diversity of views.

The emergence of content for new distribution platforms provides an opportunity for the CBC/Radio-Canada, as it does for all broadcasters and producers. However, it is our understanding that broadcasters, including the CBC, are either not paying for new platform rights or are paying just a nominal sum. While we acknowledge that, at the moment, there is little monetary value attached to the content that is created specifically for these new media, it is safe to assume that it is just a matter of time before these new exhibition platforms will be earning revenue. Given this, the CIFVF recommends that the CBC not request these rights from independent producers, or if they do, that there be a clause that allows for review of the situation within a reasonable time period so that the producer may be appropriately compensated according to market rates. To this end, the CBC should be required to incorporate this aspect of its dealings with independent producers into its independent production protocol that has been established for carrying on business with the independent production community.

[Jean-Louis Robichaud]

We thank you for having received us this morning. We will be pleased to answer your questions to the best of our ability. In the event that we do not have the necessary documents at hand to answer your questions, we will be pleased to send them to you as soon as possible.

[Robin Jackson]

Mr. Chairman, this concludes our remarks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you very much for that report.

First question is to Ms. Keeper.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presentation.

I'd like to go to a couple of comments in your presentation. One of them is when you talked about the decline in the projects that have been funded. On the CBC participation in terms of funding projects, the numbers you have listed here are just since 2004. The point, I guess, is that there has been a marked decline since 2004. Has there also been a similar pattern over the last decade, or last 12 to 15 years? Have we seen a decrease to 19.1% for 2006 from a much higher number in 1996, for example? Can we just talk about that pattern?

[Robin Jackson]

We can talk about it, but I don't go back to that time. I was a little pressed for time, so I haven't done that. I certainly can supply it to you. My impression is that they were more involved previously. I may be wrong, but I'm certainly willing to send you the information.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

So you suspect that there was a higher involvement, say 10 or 15 years ago, and that it has been a steady decline in the last few years.

[Robin Jackson]

I think so. I'm not entirely sure.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Presentations have been made that talk about the erosion of the television industry in Canada, the commitment to Canadian content over the last number of years. There are a lot of stakeholders involved. The CBC should be a hub of that, and you've said that in your presentation.

I want to get a stronger sense of what the filmmakers you're working with are saying. Is that in the presentation here? Do they feel that the public broadcaster should be central to the type of filmmaking they're doing? In your presentation you talked about the number of venues that your filmmakers have, so I'm wondering about the sense in terms of the public broadcaster. I didn't get a really clear sense of that.

[Robin Jackson]

I would say there's a general--

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

I guess what I'm asking is whether this is one of a number.... How important is it to the filmmakers?

[Robin Jackson]

I think it's important, because all broadcasters are important. Broadcasters are key in this environment right now. Producers are in a lesser position. What a broadcaster wants to commission and what they air is of critical importance to the filmmakers we work with.

I think it's a general concern about all broadcasters, but with the fact that the CBC is the national broadcaster, there's a certain expectation on the part of producers that they would ante up to this responsibility more than say a commercial broadcaster.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Okay. That's what I was wanting to know. So you don't currently have a sense that the CBC is playing a stronger role than the private broadcasters?

[Robin Jackson]

No. I think there was some concern when it was stated that they wanted documentaries that attracted audiences of 1.5 million. I see they've commissioned a documentary series called The Week The Women Went, which is based on a BBC format. Men are forced to cope in a community where all the women are removed for seven days.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

That's a reality documentary?

[Robin Jackson]

I'm not saying anything about this, other than that I don't know that this is really the kind of thing our filmmakers want to make. Our filmmakers are very dedicated to social issues, to examining issues of real content in this country. This will knock off a number of other documentaries that won't get shown by the CBC.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Well, I was a little surprised when you talked about The Passionate Eye having a decreased presence, and that Life and Times has been cancelled. The downsizing of CBC series, which I assumed were successful, are another indicator in terms of this shift in Canadian television. Are you hopeful about the new documentary channel, or that relationship?

[Robin Jackson]

The documentary channel, as you know, has been the channel where independents have been very helpful. They've done some very interesting things. They've been a leader in documentaries. There is some concern on our part, as there is for the independent community, that the CBC may diminish that role. If the CRTC approves the application, it's our sincere hope that they do not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you for that.

We have to move on to Mr. Kotto.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning. I have a few questions.

Would a private broadcaster be in a position to stand in for the SRC/CBC in terms of producing creative documentaries or educational programming?

[Jean-Louis Robichaud]

Anything is possible in this world.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

On a concrete, real and factual basis, in the current audiovisual landscape, can a private broadcaster replace the SRC/CBC in this mission?