Canadian Heritage Committee on May 27th, 2008

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

You're playing on words. Of course, there are young and older people who do different styles of music but you haven't answered my question. The newcomers on the market or the older ones who do not necessarily play classical music and whose works are not heard on the commercial stations, don't they also have the right to have some space on the waves of the public radio?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andy Scott]

Ms. Danielson, I saw your hand.

[Janet Danielson]

Yes.

I'm looking forward to Bill Bruneau's recommendations. I don't think anybody is asking for exclusively classical music on CBC—far from it. The CBC has never been an exclusively classical music station.

I remember, as a teenager, long before anybody in Europe knew about Elton John, I knew about Elton John via the CBC. I think this is a very important part of CBC programming. The objection is to the elimination of this major vehicle of classical music dissemination, the CBC Radio Orchestra, and the shunting of classical music to a time when practically nobody will be able to listen to it. Kids driving to school are disappointed because they can't hear it any more.

It's a case of being put into a much narrower area than before. But I absolutely agree with your point 100%, that there is non-classical music that CBC creative programming has always been brilliant at, and that's fine. That's great.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andy Scott]

Thank you very much.

Merci, Monsieur Malo.

We'll now go to Ed Fast for five minutes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the witnesses.

I must confess my own bias. My family are not infrequent visitors to concerts of the Vancouver Chamber Choir. Dr. Dyck has been a musical mentor to my daughter for many years, and we've very much appreciated that.

My question is going to be very direct, however, and it's going to follow up on what Mr. Abbott asked earlier. I'd like just yes or no answers from you, because of the shortness of time.

The only individual who actually has the power to direct CBC to act in a certain manner with respect to its programming is the minister herself. This committee can make suggestions, and we can make very strong recommendations, but ultimately that's the minister's prerogative. The Broadcasting Act very clearly spells out CBC's independence in its programming decisions. So if in fact there were directives made, they would have to be in extraordinary circumstances.

First of all, with respect to the axing of the CBC Radio Orchestra, do you believe that event is significant enough that it should trigger a response from the minister? I'd like a yes or no from each one of the seven of you.

[Voices]

Yes.

[A voice]

Absolutely.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andy Scott]

I think I counted seven.

Let's use reverse onus. Is there anyone who doesn't believe it?

I think that answers the question, Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

On my follow-up question.... What was the answer?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andy Scott]

There were seven yeses. I think somebody even voted twice.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

All right.

My follow-up question was whether you believe the minister should be taking action based on the reduction of classical programming on CBC Radio 2. Is that another seven yeses?

[A voice]

Absolutely.

[Voices]

Yes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

All right.

Let me follow that up with a final question that has to do with what the CBC has actually proposed as being a substitute. That was already referred to earlier by Ms. Mourani. She mentioned that in fact CBC has suggested that music streaming over the Internet would not only act as a replacement for some of the classical music programing that's going to be lost, but would in fact enhance the offering of classical music programming to our country.

First of all, do you agree, and if not, why not?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andy Scott]

I'm going to go to Montreal first.

[George Laverock]

I think this issue of webcasting music is a red herring. And as Ms. Danielson said earlier, it's not broadcasting. You have to be sitting in front of your computer in your office in order to hear music on that medium. We listen to music when we're mobile much of the time. We listen in our cars. We listen all over the place. So I don't buy that argument. I think it's a red herring, and just meant to deflect the issue.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andy Scott]

Thank you, Mr. Laverock.

I move to Vancouver.

[Jon Washburn]

It seems to me that podcasting or whatever that is, Internet broadcasting, if it's added to what we have had, is good. If it's meant to substitute, instead of actual broadcasting, then no, I think it's bad.

[Jeremy Berkman]

I'll say that additively, it is wonderful. I think it's wonderful that CBC does really work with the Internet. But I agree: only as an additive component.

[George Zukerman]

But believe it or not, many people still do not have computers or access to that kind of programming, and obviously not in cars. But equally so, in many instances in rural Canada you do not have fast Internet connections in every location and you can't always count on that opportunity to hear your music that way.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andy Scott]

Ms. Danielson.

[Janet Danielson]

It's also a bit of a slap in the face of the elderly, who have been loyal CBC listeners. I asked my mom, “Do you listen to CBC much these days?” “Well, no. They used to have such interesting book reviews and the drama and music. No, I don't listen any more.”

I've asked several elderly people. They will not listen to podcasts at all. People in rural areas might not have broadband access, but it's great as an additive.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andy Scott]

Colin Miles.

[Colin Miles]

What about podcasting in the future? Podcasting in the future will need to have content, and when there isn't a radio orchestra to create that, it means they will have to be dependent upon recordings from other countries. What about all the wonderful new composers and the wonderful new performers who could be featured?

It's also a red herring in that sense, because we've destroyed our ability to create recordings with our CBC record label, and with the destruction of the CBC Radio Orchestra, we would have destroyed our ability to create things that could be podcast as well.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andy Scott]

Thank you very much, Mr. Miles and Mr. Fast.

Now to Joyce Murray for five minutes.