Canadian Heritage Committee on June 17th, 2008

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I think there are two things here. If you remember, when I spoke at the beginning, that's why I was seeking more answers. My thanks to Mr. Gratton and Ms. Creighton and Mr. Cardin. We don't want to play a menu à la carte. We need to protect the 37%, the historical average from the total fund. At the same time, there will be some sacrifice. If you apply what the CRTC recommends, you will have a public envelope and a private envelope. We want to make sure that if we are supporting that 37%, as I am, there's a price to be paid by those educational and other broadcasters. We want to make sure that we protect them also.

I can understand when you talk about the percentage and all that, but I think the purpose of the amendment should be protection for the other broadcasters in the public sector who also want to have a piece. We don't want to lead them for nothing. That's the purpose of the amendment, and that's why we should support it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I wanted to speak on another amendment dealing with the issue of indexing and private sector increases. I think you're going to find this problematic because of the way it's worded. But I'll defer to the discussion we're having right now on the latest amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I don't know how long we want to debate or what we're going to debate on this motion. But if Mr. Abbott was wanting to respond, or if we're going to bring another amendment, then I'm going over to Ms. Mourani and then Ms. Fry, and this meeting is going to be over very shortly.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

This is a friendly amendment and Madame Mourani has accepted it. So I think we should just vote for the amended motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

The bell's ringing.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Right.

Mr. Chair, if Mr. Fast has an amendment on the private sector, he should make another proposal, another motion, and we will discuss it. At the moment, we are specifically discussing the public sector. That is our topic.

Just now, Ms. Fry said that her amendment was a friendly one, and I agree. I have no problem with that, but I think we should call the question. We debated it a lot last week and we have heard from the Canadian Television Fund. I think that we have looked at the question from all sides, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, I've been very patient. I've sat back as these different amendments were proposed and discussed. I haven't really participated in that except in a very minor way. That's because I'm waiting to address the whole issue of the wording, “indexed to private sector increases”. That term can be interpreted two different ways, and the last thing you need is a loosey-goosey motion that the minister is being asked to act on. If it takes next Thursday to get this finished, that's fine. But I want to make sure this is done right.

The other thing we haven't done is debate the merits of the motion itself. I have some difficulty with it. We're presupposing that the minister is going to act in a certain manner. We have no idea what her response to CRTC's recommendations is going to be. She has many different options, and this motion presupposes that we're going to go into a two-stream scenario. This assumption may very well be wrong. So I'd hate to go down that road. I think this is premature. But even if it wasn't premature, the motion as it stands right now still has a serious problem because of the wording, “indexed private sector increases”. I want to address this issue before we're finished.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Chair, I call the question, please.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

She can't call the question.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

We haven't even finished debating the amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

The person who made the motion has called for a vote, and I'm ready to take the vote.

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I'd like you to check with the clerk, Mr. Chair, because I believe I have the opportunity to debate this as amended, and I have not been granted that opportunity.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

We haven't even voted on the last amendment, let alone the main motion.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

There's no such thing as a friendly amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

We didn't accept the friendly amendment unanimously, and friendly amendments are usually unanimous. Right now we will vote on Ms. Fry's amendment. The bells are ringing. We have to debate after that, so we'll vote on Ms. Fry's amendment.

The amendment is that “The envelope of public funding allocated traditionally to the other public, not-for-profit and educational broadcasters must also be maintained and similarly indexed...”.

(Amendment agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I call the question on the motion as amended, Mr. Chair.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

This is not tyranny.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I've been instructed that we have to debate the motion. Right now we have a vote coming up in the House, so there's no time left to debate the motion.

I will adjourn the meeting.