Evidence of meeting #14 for Canadian Heritage in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was programming.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Vice-Chairman, Rogers Communications Inc.
Yes, I would agree with you. It is a different situation in Quebec, and we have no TV stations in Quebec.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
You do not have any TV stations in Quebec. You have problems with Canadian content, but Quebec does not have that problem. Later, Mr. Péladeau will tell us just how much Quebeckers like Quebec television. No doubt, he will give us a fair number of statistics on the topic.
Earlier you said that you were not bothered by the fact that your licence was renewed for only one year. However, TVA indicated in its brief that it wants more stability and would like its licence to be renewed for a longer period. The problems with Quebec television and those with what I call Canadian television are so different that it is impossible to apply the same solutions and regulations to both. I do not know if you are aware, but Quebec has been asking for its own version of the CRTC since 1929.
Could that be part of your solution?
Vice-President, Rogers Television, Rogers Communications Inc.
I do not think that we would agree. Our preference is a single regulatory system. I will now give the floor to Mr. Viner.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Rogers Media, Rogers Communications Inc.
I was just turning to Mr. Engelhart to ask who the constitutional lawyer on our panel was. I have no comment.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Go ahead, Mr. Engelhart.
Mr. Lind, you will be next.
Why?
Senior Vice-President, Regulatory and Chief Privacy Officer, Rogers Communications Inc.
I know that Quebec does have some unique differences with its TV market, but I think the CRTC is capable of regulating both.
Vice-President, Rogers Television, Rogers Communications Inc.
In Quebec, companies would also have to apply for a federal licence, which would require them to duplicate their efforts. The regulatory process is complicated enough as it is. I do not see the use in adding a second system. It would not be profitable.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I think my time is almost up. I just wanted to finish by telling you that Lawrence Cannon, now a Conservative minister, disagrees with you. In 1992, when he was communications minister in Quebec, he made the following statement:
Quebec must be able to determine the operating rules for radio and television broadcasting systems, and to control the development plans of telecommunications networks, service fee structures and the regulation of new telecommunications services […] Quebec cannot let others control programming for electronic media within its borders […] To that end, Quebec must have full jurisdiction and be able to deal with a single regulatory body.
In Quebec, the government and political parties of all stripes have been asking for this since 1929. I am sure that my time is up, but you can go ahead and comment.
Thank you.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Engelhart, I'm going to get an answer from you on that question. Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough.
The broadcasters have made a couple of positions. One is that they must have fee-for-carriage in order to make their businesses sustainable. That's what they're saying. They're losing money; they must have fee-for-carriage; their model is broken. But they're saying it need not necessarily be a tax on consumers. They're saying you're making a lot of money, and why do you have to pass it along? Nobody says it has to be passed on to consumers.
By the way, they did say they did extend a $3 cap, and that is something the CRTC did not indicate. I haven't heard otherwise. I don't know if either they did or they are prepared to extend a $3 cap, but I am concerned that once a fee is established it can be gradually ratcheted up if there is a bidding war on programming and so forth.
That said, why do you have to pass on a fee for carriage? Why couldn't we take it out of all the money that Rogers is making and give it to the broadcasters? What's wrong with that?
Senior Vice-President, Regulatory and Chief Privacy Officer, Rogers Communications Inc.
The problem is, our costs are going up because we're preparing our networks for the future. We spend half a billion dollars a year in programming costs. A lot of that money goes to Global and CTV. Those costs go up all the time. We have to upgrade and modernize our network or we will lose customers to the Internet, and the Canadian broadcasting system will be in real trouble.
We're spending $700 million a year on our network upgrades. We could not absorb that fee-for-carriage and incur the costs that we're incurring to upgrade the network and to improve programming. It just wouldn't be possible.
Conservative
Senior Vice-President, Regulatory and Chief Privacy Officer, Rogers Communications Inc.
It could, and I really worry that it would lead to a weakening of the entire broadcasting system. Once you start raising rates, then what people do is downgrade their packages, so you get people buying fewer packages. That hurts the specialty industry, it hurts us, and you end up in a downward spiral. So it could be quite negative.
Conservative
Tim Uppal Conservative Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB
Thank you.
I want to clarify something, Mr. Engelhart. Did you say that ad revenues were not down? We're hearing differently. We're hearing that ad revenues are down across the board.
Senior Vice-President, Regulatory and Chief Privacy Officer, Rogers Communications Inc.
This last year, that's true. This last year, they're down in TV, radio, newspapers, and billboards. The last year for which we have official CRTC data is 2008. If you look at the CRTC numbers, over-the-air television has had steadily increasing revenues every year, though they have not been huge.
Conservative
Tim Uppal Conservative Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB
How many hours of local programming do your community channels produce, and what is the annual budget for it?
Vice-President, Rogers Television, Rogers Communications Inc.
The annual budget is just over $30 million. In 2008 they produced 14,087 hours of community television programming.
Conservative
Vice-President, Rogers Television, Rogers Communications Inc.
It varies by market. In small markets like Owen Sound, where there is no other television broadcaster, there will be news programming, high school programming, hockey games, amateur sports, bingo, city council, which is carried in every market, and anything of importance to the community. Last year in Barrie, for example, when there was a 14-year-old boy who went missing, we were pretty much 24/7 on that story. In Woodstock today, we're carrying the press conferences on the missing girl. So for anything that's important to the community, we'll switch. That's the beauty of community television—you're nimble and independent enough to change your programming.
In larger markets, we like to complement the over-the-air broadcaster. So in Ottawa and Toronto, we don't do news, but we do high school sports, city council, town hall, lots of public affairs, and about 16 hours of multicultural programming per week.
Conservative
Tim Uppal Conservative Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB
So most of local news and what not is generally provided by the over-the-air.
Vice-President, Rogers Television, Rogers Communications Inc.
In large markets, it is. In markets like Barrie, Oshawa, Mississauga, or Brampton, we do our own local news.
Conservative
Tim Uppal Conservative Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB
What is the percentage of people who get their television by rabbit ears versus cable and satellite?
