Canadian Heritage Committee on April 27th, 2009

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

We tried to show ways by which we could bridge this $125 million issue we have. That included backing a standard line of credit in a commercial institution and an acceleration on our future appropriations. It involved being able to sell assets we had, as you see now, and the permission to do so.

Everything I've told you about the $125 million obviously still depends on Minister Moore accepting the transactions we bring to him.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

My last question, before I turn it over to Ruby, is how much of a loan you would need tomorrow to not lay off any of the 800 people?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

That's the issue we talked about, I think in answer to Monsieur Pomerleau or Madam Lavallée. We can't use a loan to protect 800 jobs. Unless you make the funding permanent, we're going to have this issue next year.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Unless your revenues go up.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Unless the revenues go up. But in this environment we don't think there's going to be a substantial increase in advertising revenues, which I will remind you is the only revenue we have right now on the television side.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Building upon what my colleague was saying, if advertising revenues don't go up, which is your only revenue stream, can you foresee even more job losses?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

This is why we continuously remind this committee that when we talk about fee-for-carriage, the local improvement fund, and the suggestions of any other initiative that comes from government or the CRTC, you need to include this for CBC/Radio Canada or we're going to be back in front of you telling you about job cuts.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

The demographic across the country is obviously changing very rapidly. I look at my own riding in Brampton, and it's one of the most multicultural and multilingual ridings in the country. What impact have the job losses and closures of some of the regional and local programming had on ethnic programming and ethnic communities in the country?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Madam, your question is very precise in nature. I would have to follow it up with a better answer than the one I could give you today.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Okay. I would appreciate it if you could get me some information on that, because I know it's a huge concern as a national public broadcaster. The ethnic communities also want to ensure that programs they're connected to or issues that are important to them are also brought forward. I know the CBC has been trying to build those relationships and bridges, and I would like to get more information on that aspect. It is of concern to many people.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Sure.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

There is a last question I wanted to ask you. Obviously the transition to digital has to be made by 2011. There are going to be significant costs involved. Has CBC budgeted for those costs? What is the nature of the costs CBC will incur? Can you outline specific challenges that the CBC and regional stations across the country will face?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

As you know, this is not a CBC issue; it is an industry-wide issue.

The CRTC's working group came out last week with a suggestion of some kind of hybrid plan. Right now CBC/Radio-Canada has eight transmitters covering about 47% of the population. One of the plans we submitted way back when was another hybrid plan, which was for 44 transmitters covering about 80% of the population, so depending on where we end up in the conversations that are going on right now, it's going to be between eight and 44. It's difficult for me to give you an exact number.

Right now the funding is really a big issue for us. There are no dollars available right now in our normal appropriation plans.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Pablo Rodriguez]

Thank you, Ms. Dhalla. That's all the time we have.

Ms. Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lacroix, in your presentation, you said that CBC/Radio-Canada must retain its deep roots within the regions. I would like to talk to you about the Abitibi region, which is a huge area with 150,000 inhabitants. It truly is a remote region.

CBC/Radio-Canada does not have deep roots there; actually, it's not there at all. In Rouyn-Noranda, there is a funny, screwed up arrangement—I can't explain it in any other terms—according to which several journalists working at Radio Nord read the same news report at the end of the day, and it is written and read in the same order. At 5 o'clock, we hear from TQS; 5:30, they change the set and it's TVA; and at 6 o'clock, it's Radio-Canada. I'm sure you understand that the people of the Abitibi—Témiscamingue region find that this news report is not at all of the same calibre as the Radio-Canada news. Moreover, the people of the region have set up a committee in order to come to an agreement about what they will be requesting of Radio-Canada.

Mr. Lacroix, they have asked me to ask you to go see them. You are invited to the Abitibi—Témiscamingue region to meet with this group of regional politicians and talk to the members of this group about how the news reports could be improved and more in keeping with the Radio-Canada style, if I could put it that way. Obviously, this is very important to them. I hope you will be giving me an answer in response to this invitation.

Do you have any comments?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I've spent a lot of time in the Abitibi region over the course of my life, and I will be pleased to go back there.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Perfect. I will tell them that, and they will be pleased.

Now I would like to talk to you about the fees paid to the specialty channels. When Pierre Karl Péladeau appeared before the committee, he said that the fees paid to the specialty channels should be taken and redistributed to the general channels, and that would be one way of throwing a lifeline to his company.

Many of the fees go to American specialty channels such as CNN. Some of my friends met representatives of CNN last week at a major American conference. CNN is splitting its sides laughing because the Canadians are sending them millions of dollars without them having to do anything at all. CNN and its advertisements are broadcast to all Canadians, to Quebeckers, and what's more, this channel is getting millions of dollars.

Do you think that Pierre Karl Péladeau's solution would be a good one?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I presume you're still talking about the redevances, about fee-for-carriage.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes, I'm talking about fee-for-carriage.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I'm sure you read in my introductory remarks that CBC/Radio-Canada attaches great importance to the possibility of receiving some of these fees. This is one of the three possible solutions that I suggested to you, Ms. Lavallée, in my opening remarks.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you. I wanted that to be very clear.

Last year, in the infamous report that this committee prepared, there was a recommendation from the Bloc Québécois that took the form of a dissenting opinion. We said that the problems of Radio-Canada and the problems of the CBC were very different, and that consequently, they required different solutions.

We know that in times of crisis, choices must be made. Have you thought about the choices you might have to make?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

The financial problems that CBC/Radio-Canada is currently experiencing are not problems of the English network versus the French network or radio versus television. The entire corporation is being affected by what's going on. The entire economic model of CBC/Radio-Canada is being affected. Inside the corporation, we do not see this as a problem with people, on the contrary. If you heard my comments, you'll realize that every part of our corporation took part in the exercise to balance our budget. The problem is not with radio or television, with the English side of the corporation or the French side, it's a structural problem.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I was sure that you were going to give me that answer, Mr. Lacroix. All the same, ordinary people look at what the CBC and Radio-Canada are doing, and they see that the problems are different. The CBC has to really compete with American television. You yourself said that you had to buy American shows and place them at the beginning of prime time so that people—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Pablo Rodriguez]

Your time is up, Ms. Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I'm not even allowed to finish my sentence.