Canadian Heritage Committee on May 13th, 2009

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Pradier, is the Alliance québécoise des techniciens de l'image et du son just for Quebec?

[Brunhilde Pradier]

Yes.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

What's the name of the Canadian equivalent?

[Brunhilde Pradier]

That would be a combination of the Directors Guild of Canada and other associations, YATSE or NABET, elsewhere in Canada.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

All right.

I'm going back to your brief, which states the following:

AQTIS sincerely believes that the TV industry is not going through the kind of crisis that conventional broadcasters would have you believe, so that they could receive subsidies from the Canadian government, subscription fees that they are losing so as to then ask for regulatory relief and more lenient conditions to keep their licences.

That's a big statement, what you're saying there. I want to give you the opportunity to explain that. I'm playing the devil's advocate. Audiences are being fragmented. They say that the specialty channels have racked up 50% of the ratings and that advertising revenues have declined. They also say there is a financial crisis.

What is your basis for saying that conventional television is not in crisis?

[Brunhilde Pradier]

I think those businesses made business decisions that put them in certain situations. We've previously seen this kind of thing occur in other markets that were not regulated. Neither conventional TV nor production are in crisis. I've brought along a document that I could distribute to you. At the TVA shareholders meeting, for example, Quebecor announced that its revenues had increased by more than 40% in the last quarter. We're talking about TVA Group. In that case, can you say there's a crisis in television?

In his “Libre opinion” column in last Saturday's edition of Le Devoir, Mr. Péladeau complained precisely about the fact that they were the victims of market fragmentation. I find it a little surprising to hear that from Mr. Péladeau, the owner of Quebecor Group, which is both a cable distributor and owner of specialty channels and conventional TV channels. They themselves have helped to fragment their market. If they say they are victims of that—

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Pardon me for interrupting you. You know that we only five minutes. You cite the example of TVA Group, and it's true it has excellent revenues. It announced its quarterly results again today. Unfortunately, I didn't hear them. It's true that Quebecor and all of Quebec's francophone television are doing very well. Ratings are up, and people are watching. The fact nevertheless remains—and that's not so much your problem—that people in the Canadian television sector, tell us all their problems because ratings aren't good; competition from Hollywood is hurting them enormously.

Is there a little of this dichotomy between Quebec and Canada in the crisis in television?

[Brunhilde Pradier]

There's a very big difference between francophone and anglophone television. Anglophone television has really shown that viewers watch programs produced by Canadians and by Quebeckers. We follow our market and we know we are envied relative to what goes on elsewhere, in other provinces.

The difficulty with this industry lies in the search for a business solution for companies with cross-ownership. This is what's happening, we think: regulatory changes would cut access for Canadian production to a diversity of voices through independent production, and, as a result, we would wind up with businesses—a few major players—holding a monopoly.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Pardon me, but I would absolutely like to know Mr. Fortin's opinion on this subject.

Do you believe that television is in crisis?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Make it very short, please, if you can.

[Luc Fortin]

Many stakeholders have emphasized this fact because there is a splitting of revenue sources and of the number of stations, etc. In fact, we don't need to go back over this question.

Ms. Pradier emphasized a very important problem that we have mainly seen in Quebec—it concerns Quebecor—but that could well occur elsewhere.

A little earlier I said that the same media conglomerate produced artists, that it used its television network to promote them, that, in addition, in owned cable for television and Internet, and that it rebroadcast programs on the web. It also owns newspapers for promotion purposes.

All that's lacking is a radio station. If it had one, it would violate the CRTC's laws. Nevertheless, it's very close to a media monopoly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Mr. Angus, please.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you for your good presentation today. I'm a former member of the musicians union. I'm also very familiar with the problem of the cultural industry across Canada.

I think both presentations exposed something that has not really been examined here. We hear all the time about the difference between the Quebec market and the English Canadian market. We often hear how much better it is in Quebec.

But there's a fundamental flaw in terms of developing a cultural industry in Quebec and you both pointed to it: it's the vertical integration under one dynasty ownership. We had Monsieur Péladeau. I've met with him a number of times. He was very clear he didn't feel that as a BDU owner he should have to pay into a fund unless that fund was going for in-house production, which he owns the rights to for video on demand. So we have Quebecor that runs the newspapers, the speciality stations, and the television, and now they're sitting on the board--with no more producers sitting on the board to bother him--and the television fund has been changed so that it can now be in-house.

Madam Pradier, you spoke earlier about the problems in the 1980s with the Quebec market allowing itself to become too vertically integrated and stifling the creativity and the innovation of the artistic community. Are you afraid that these changes are going to lead Quebec artists back to being part of a stable in someone's empire?

[Brunhilde Pradier]

This is exactly what we are afraid of.

It is exactly that. With the recent creation of the Canada Media Fund, the merger of the Canadian Television Fund and, especially, access to the fund by producers or conventional television broadcasters means that they will be able to virtually eliminate all competition from independent producers.

To access that fund, independent producers must have a broadcaster's broadcasting licence. If the broadcaster has access to the fund, do you think it will grant a licence to an independent producer? No. It will try to produce on its own. That's precisely where this leads us.

In Quebec, we are 3,000 technicians, crafts people, creators and designers who produce this television. I don't know how I'm going to explain to my members why the government made this decision, which will lead to the creation of a vertically integrated production and broadcasting monopoly and that, despite the success of their productions, they will be losing their jobs and their livelihood.

In its presentation at the CRTC hearings, TVA asked to be able to reproduce successes like Star Académie and Annie et ses hommes. I would humbly point out to you that those programs were produced by independent producers. If TVA wants to reproduce those success stories, it has to have the ingredients and the recipe to do it. But it's the independent technicians who have those ingredients, and not any in-and-out. It's an emulation of creation, and it's precisely what TVA won't be able to reproduce.

TVA will be able to reproduce the model from 30 years ago with two voices: the voice of Radio-Canada and that of TVA. That's why we think this decision must be reviewed by the government.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Fortin.

[Luc Fortin]

I would add that the other danger concerns the diversity of voices.

Take, for example, Radio-Canada, which produces some 2,500 musical performances a year. I'm talking about Radio-Canada alone; I'm not including the CBC. Radio-Canada doesn't just produce artists in whom it has a financial interest. It doesn't have a financial interest in those artists. Programming selection is very scattered; it includes all genres.

Of course, a media empire will be tempted to promote artists it produces itself through its other disc, video, artist management and other companies. I think the ground rules must be balanced and that a little more funding should be given to Radio-Canada.

The diversity of voices is currently under attack and people always want to cut funding to Radio-Canada.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Just quickly, because I know my time's running out, I just want to get this—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Please make it very, very short, because we're going to have bells, and I do want to let Ms. Glover have her five minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Private radio doesn't break artists; they promote artists, whether they're being promoted to them through a corporation or on their own. Radio-Canada is the only voice that allows listeners to hear new talent, talent that has no record deals and has never been heard anywhere else.

What concerns do you have about lessening the role of Radio-Canada in the regions across the country in its ability to enable new artistic voices to be heard?

[Luc Fortin]

The problem is that all the artists in Canada's regions doing anything other than popular music may have trouble making themselves known. That will impoverish culture in the regions and the diversity of voices. Canadians must have a good overview of Canadian culture, not just a certain mass culture, which moreover is very good. But there isn't just that.

In all of Canada's regions, very high quality events take place. There's music everywhere. Last summer I was in Newfoundland to attend the Canadian Conference of Musicians, and I was completely surprised at the number of musical groups that were in St. John's. It was incredible. They have to make themselves known as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Ms. Glover, when the bells go, we only have to go down the hall. I'll respect the fact that you have five minutes for questions and answers.

You can answer through the bells, please.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you for coming.

It's a pleasure for me to hear what's happening in Quebec. In my riding, in Saint-Boniface, in Manitoba, we also have a really strong and active French culture. We also have independent producers who really have a job to do with regard to the model that's being presented.

I wanted to congratulate you because, in your briefs, you really identified what we consider important.

On page 4 of the Quebec Musicians' Guild's brief, Mr. Fortin, you quoted the Broadcasting Act.

And you, Ms. Pradier, on page 3 of the brief from the Alliance québécoise des techniciens de l'image et du son, state that:

The Government of Canada has always been determined to support a Canadian broadcasting system of international calibre that is genuinely owned by Canadians and under their control. The goal of such a system is first and foremost to meet the needs of Canadians.

That's what we believe as well: there has to be Canadian production, Canadian programming. Having said that, I'm surprised to hear you talk about crisis in the television industry. You say you don't agree with the decisions made by TVA and Quebecor. However, when it comes to Radio-Canada, it's a bit the reverse, and that surprises me a little. We're talking about Canadian culture and programming, like Canadian productions, and yet CBC/Radio-Canada has bought programs like Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy. As you said with regard to TVA and Quebecor, these decisions are a bit odd, since we're always talking about Canadian programming.

I also want to ask you, Ms. Pradier, whether you think it's slightly beyond the mandate—based on what you cited—which is to meet the needs of Canadians for Canadian programming.

[Brunhilde Pradier]

It's important for Canadians to have access to Canadian programming and to a diversity of voices in prime time programming.

For me—and for all culture practitioners, I believe—the cultural phenomenon in itself an exchange, a communication. We want to communicate what we are and our Canadian cultural values to the entire world. That's why we want international calibre production. We also want to receive what the entire world does, and it is that meeting that is stimulating for creators and for reflection.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Wouldn't you frankly prefer to see Canadian productions, programs made here in Canada, instead of Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy?

[Brunhilde Pradier]

Absolutely.