Canadian Heritage Committee on March 4th, 2009

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I also found one. I found an analysis of the Trade Routes Program on the Canadian Heritage website. It is the final report on the “Trade Routes Client Satisfaction Survey”. It is twice as thick as this, and as you can certainly understand, I left part of it back at my office. The survey is dated December 2007, which was a few months before the decision was made to cut the program. The results it presents are extremely positive: “Eighty per cent of clients rated the program as valuable or useful to their organization, and a clear majority (61 per cent) considered it very useful.” Do pardon the French translation; it is not my own.

Further on, it says: “[...] use of the program resulted in increased commercial ties with clients [...] Almost all Trade Routes clients (91 per cent) say they are at least reasonably likely to use the program again in future.”

Under the circumstances, Mr. MacDuff, please explain why the Minister of Canadian Heritage is saying that the Trade Routes Program is ineffective?

[Pierre MacDuff]

You should be asking the Minister that question, not me.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Have you used the Trade Routes Program?

[Pierre MacDuff]

Yes. The program was not only used for export purposes. It could also be a counseling tool to prepare a business plan or resolve a management crisis. We have availed ourselves of this program, not for performances themselves, but rather in order to send people to the touring office to sell our shows. That was only one component of the program. In fact, we availed ourselves of the program on two occasions and we were satisfied.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

My question is addressed to all three of you. Is there another program, either under Canadian Heritage or elsewhere in the federal government, that could provide assistance for foreign tours?

Mr. MacDuff, is there another program?

[Pierre MacDuff]

No. The Canada Council for the Arts has a budget for developing co-productions, but it is really minimal. The real tragedy is that we are talking about an abrupt cancellation of the program. Fortunately, it doesn't work that way with the other programs we have in society. We have reformed our education and health care systems several times now. If we had suddenly stopped providing health care because programs were poorly managed, while waiting for something better to be found, what would have happened? And yet, that is exactly the situation we find ourselves in.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Did you hear that the Trade Routes Program was poorly managed?

[Pierre MacDuff]

That has not been my experience with the program.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

So, you had the impression that it was well managed.

[Pierre MacDuff]

Yes, exactly.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Ms. White, is there another federal government program in place that would allow you to fund foreign tours?

[Lucy White]

No, there's nothing like those two programs federally. There are some provinces that offer small amounts of money to their local organizations, but the Trade Routes and PromArt programs were particularly important, because not only do you need to send agents abroad to sell shows, but you could also benefit greatly from bringing presenters to Canada to see work.

I think it's interesting to note that the government has announced a marquee festival program—to stimulate tourism, I assume—but cultural tourism relies on advance knowledge of the work, of the products that a cultural tourist is travelling to see. If those works are not available overseas, tourists are not going to come to Canada to a marquee festival.

So it seems to me very contradictory to cut an existing program, which may have had problems—though we haven't been privileged to see either the terms or the results of the analysis—and then to announce another festival funding. I don't understand what the policy idea is behind all the cuts and then the new programs aren't yet in place.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Ask short questions, please, Madame Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

The last budget included a federal government investment of $25 million to provide six-figure grants to foreign artists.

[Lucy White]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

In its last budget, the Government of Canada announced $25 million in funding to provide grants as part of an international competition that would be held abroad. It would give out grants in the six-figures—in other words, $100,000 and more—to foreign artists who came to Canada. The program is called “Canada Prizes for the Arts and Creativity”.

[Lucy White]

Right.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Were you aware of that?

[Lucy White]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay, Ms. White is aware of it.

Now we move to Mr. Angus, please.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

This has been very illuminating.

I was particularly intrigued, Mr. MacDuff, by the comment that Canada is too small a market. I think most people think of our immense size but don't realize the immense cost of getting anyplace within that market.

How important is the international market in sustaining an organization like yours in terms of your long-term capabilities?

[Pierre MacDuff]

There are clearly some areas that are less affected than others in terms of foreign exports. However, companies that perform shows for children and dance companies all tell you the same thing: the Canadian market is simply too small. That is a limitation that affects us because we are a company involved in both research and creation, I'd say. Our shows are accessible but unconventional, and we work in multimedia. We were one of the first companies to use multimedia, and that is also one of the reasons why are invited to perform abroad. However, we may take three or four years to do research and explore different options. Unlike other companies, we cannot limit ourselves to 20 performances in our home city of Montreal. We have presented some shows all over the world. One we have now removed from our repertoire, called L'histoire de l'oie or The Tale of Teeka in English, won a Governor General's Award. We performed it 549 times over a 15-year period.

For us, these funding cuts are a disaster.

Of course, it is a fabulous activity, from both an artistic and economic standpoint. The Les Deux Mondes company is the result of international outreach. Without that international outreach, someone other than myself would be sitting at this table, because the company would not have been sustainable financially, had it been forced to limit itself to performing in Canada. Having said that, it also performs here in Canada. We do outreach at the regional, national and international levels.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Madam White, following on this, having a stable market, one where you can invest in a show or perhaps in a cultural tour over a long period of time, allows you a stability in your organizations that you would not otherwise have. For instance, if you were trying to do 30 different shows in Montreal over three years, you'd run out of your market fairly quickly.

Considering the amount of investment from the federal government per project for touring, how much were you able to leverage because you knew you had the financial costs covered--to at least get the plane tickets paid, for instance--in order to carry the show to its new markets?

[Lucy White]

I'm sorry, I don't actually have aggregate figures yet. We've been trying to collect the data, but the cuts were only announced as a surprise in August.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Okay.

Would someone else have a sense of what those dollars leverage you in terms of being able to take a show?

Monsieur MacDuff.