Evidence of meeting #8 for Canadian Heritage in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
And we are talking about replacing $7 million in funding. Is that correct?
4 p.m.
Bloc
4 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Dance Assembly
There aren't any programs accessible through Canadian Heritage, but as I mentioned, the Canada Council for the Arts have introduced a pilot program with a very small budget, acknowledging the fact that they were not accorded new revenues to support that activity.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
So, there is no other program available to replace the one you had before.
Another argument was made as well. Mr. Paré, you said that for every dollar of grant money that you receive, you leverage $5.50 in spinoffs. Yet Mr. Moore says that it costs $5 million for administration just to distribute $2 million in funding. Is that an accurate criticism?
4 p.m.
President, International Exchange for the Performing Arts
Mr. Moore is talking about waste under the Trade Routes program. If there is an issue, it relates to departmental management of the program. The $2 million given to artistic companies produce enormous financial spinoffs. That money allows them to explore new opportunities and organize missions abroad, in order to secure contracts. The PromArt program was there to shore up budgets or applications aimed at seeking additional revenue streams. Based on the study we conducted, every dollar invested by Canada yielded spinoffs of $5.50. Also, the program allowed companies to stay afloat and maintain jobs.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I am not sure I understand. The budget for Trade Routes was about $8 million. Mr. Moore said that it costs $5 million to manage the program. He said that $5 million amounted to bureaucratic waste and that the remaining $3 million, if I understood your explanation, was distributed to cultural organizations that were really eligible.
4:05 p.m.
President, International Exchange for the Performing Arts
To artistic companies.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
4:05 p.m.
President, International Exchange for the Performing Arts
That amount was used for the infamous trade commissioners that Heritage Canada appointed or sent to work in certain Canadian embassies abroad. In reality, they were duplicating the work carried out by cultural attachés or advisors who didn't have the budgets or necessary resources to promote Canadian companies on the ground. And that does not include the trade commissioners that were operating in certain Canadian cities. The cost of that was enormous. The funding was used to help Canadian companies develop, but it was not really necessary. The money was not used appropriately.
In 2001, when I was a member of the task force, the plan that we brought forward provided for this funding to be paid directly to Canadian organizations, associations or companies for them to look after their own development and promote their own creative work and productions abroad. That recommendation was not acted on. Instead, the decision was made to put trade commissioners in Canadian embassies abroad, at tremendous cost. In my opinion, this was a source of waste within the department.
Now Canadian companies are being penalized in terms of their future development. No rationale has been given for that decision, in terms of the $2 or $3 million that was paid to Canadian companies.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
You'll have an opportunity. Yes, time just flies.
Mr. Angus, please.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you.
I'm very pleased to have your presentations before us today.
It has been very interesting to try to work our way through this. I was quite surprised that when our government was going to cut programs in the arts, it would cut on exports and the promotion of export culture, because I thought there were certainly other ways, if a government wanted to attack arts or cut programs, they could do that. Why would they focus on the export sector?
When we got our first answer, it was from the Prime Minister, who said this was just taxpayers subsidizing galas for rich people. Yet what I'm hearing from you is that these were costs to cover freight and flight for dancers and artists.
Are you aware of any other government in the G8 that doesn't meet what I consider to be this relatively meagre standard for promotion of tours, to just pay for flights and pay to make sure the gear actually gets there? Is that standard? Is that at least what all other G8 countries do? Is there any other G8 country that doesn't see the value of exporting cultural product?
4:05 p.m.
President, International Exchange for the Performing Arts
That is normal practice. As Mr. Faucher was explaining earlier, the Goethe Institute in Germany, Culturesfrance, Arts Council England and the Japan Foundation are some of the many organizations that support international touring by their artistic companies by defraying the costs of travel for personnel, as well as technical costs. That is an international practice followed by all countries. Some, France in particular, even pay performance fees to companies to promote their country through its culture and through the work of their artistic companies, whether we're talking about books, film or the performing arts. So, this is really a way of gaining increased visibility for their country. It is common practice.
4:05 p.m.
President, Conseil québécois du théâtre
I am part of the Festival TransAmériques de Montréal. This summer, we will be hosting a German dance company that will be presenting a major show. There has been very significant collaboration with the Goethe Institute, to make it possible for the show to be presented in Ottawa and Montreal. Also, a Chilean company will be presenting two small shows. Now, one can hardly say that Chile is a rich country. Yet it has just created an organization whose sole purpose is to promote its artists on the international scene. It provides very significant funding so that these performances can occur.
When we go to all these festivals, we meet up with our international partners and work on securing venues and presentation opportunities for artists and their works. All countries contribute to ensuring those opportunities exist.
4:10 p.m.
President, International Exchange for the Performing Arts
It is important to remember that the money given to Canadian companies to cover international transportation costs is paid to Air Canada, a Canadian carrier. That money is not spent abroad; it stays here in Canada.
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Dance Assembly
Could I add to that?
As you can imagine, Canada is geographically distant from much of the foreign market, and so it is particularly important that this investment be made for Canadian companies and artists. Also, it is a reciprocal policy that when festivals like Luminato invite companies from abroad, those companies pay for the travel of their artists to come to our festivals, and so we need to be able to reciprocate that.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I'm going to follow up on this, because not only is Canada distant from foreign markets, Canadian companies are also distant from their own markets. It's very expensive to travel in Canada, and Madam Litzenberger, it might have been you who said there just isn't a big enough domestic market to ensure viability of operation.
Let's consider your theatre company, which began in 1980. If we were looking at the same situation today of a small dance or theatre company, given the fact that many of the arts programs have been cut over the years, in terms of the viability of an operation that you say had 140,000 attendees on the latest tour, how could you grow a company like that without having an international market?
I offer that to you or to anyone else who would like to speak.
4:10 p.m.
Artistic Director, La La La Human Steps
It wouldn't be possible. In a way, I think it's really something that permits the outside or other countries to invest in Canadian talent and Canadian artists.
We have the sense that grant money is provided for the creation of cultural products, that artists are asked to set up their own companies and create these works, but that after that, nobody wants them to be exported or for them to have a chance to be seen elsewhere. That really makes no sense whatsoever, considering that much of that grant money is compensated by the revenues that are generated when our products are exported.
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Dance Assembly
Because dance companies are not connected to another major commercial cultural industry the way music is to the sound recording industry, for example, we can only generate revenue from live performances, so access to as many markets as possible is critical.