Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 5th, 2010

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Can I speak to that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Go ahead.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Well, first of all, Mr. Rodriguez, can you move your motion, please?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I so move.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay, the motion's in front of us.

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you. I was confused, because we had done a CBC study about a year and a half ago, and we put in a great deal of effort and we crossed from one end of the country to another, so when I read a motion saying we're going to study CBC, I thought, well, it's been done.

Now if we have a motion to study the change in broadcast because of digital platforms and include the sale of CTV and what's happening with Canwest, that's a different issue, because it's not just focusing on CBC. But we're actually now in a situation that's unprecedented and we're in very new terrain.

Whether or not these new television platforms, including Quebecor, are going to start—basically, are we looking at television becoming a mobile telephone device service, or is it traditional broadcast? That is definitely within the purview of our committee. But I think it is a study in itself, and I don't think it's just we throw it into the digital study. This is about broadcast and some of the dramatic changes.

So I would support a motion that is refocused on that and that it is a study in and of itself, as opposed to just trying to fit it in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I think these two studies would be too similar. I have some concerns about the relevance of conducting a completely separate study on the integration of broadcasters—and that would include the CBC—and about having to wait until we have finished discussing the future of media and new media. In my view, the two overlap.

Of course, as part of our ongoing study, we could hold a two-hour meeting to discuss the CBC and its future in this universe, as well as the implications of integration. We could cover this in our study on new and emerging media. As I see it, these two subjects are too closely linked to be dealt with separately. We could cover both as part of the same study.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Mr. Del Mastro, go ahead.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Actually I agree with both of them, surprisingly. Because I think what Charlie is talking about is kind of the vertical integration of media platforms that is being proposed by new entrants. It's a reality that this is happening, and I think that's also what you want to talk to CBC about: how are they keeping up with this vertical integral of platforms and evolving media?

And I actually do think it fits within our new media study, but I wouldn't be adverse to suggesting that within that study we could have a carve-out that specifically talks about some of the challenges in the broadcast industry and how that's evolving. I do think it's evolving, because there are new media opportunities and new platform opportunities, and I do think it's critical that we talk about it within the context of what we're doing.

I don't think it's mutually exclusive to say that we can support this motion and then call on CTV and Canwest to appear and all of the other players, Corus, and obviously Quebecor. I think it would be incumbent upon us to call them all in on that context and certainly talk about it in the future.

But I don't think supporting this is mutually exclusive to doing that, Charlie.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm going to have to play the hard man on this, in that we haven't decided what we're doing with our digital media study, but now we're going to start to bring in broadcast and fit it in.

I think the situation with CBC is distinct. It's distinct because CBC is now the only broadcaster left in Canada that is not part of a vertically integrated delivery service. Its challenges are going to be very specific to the fact that its main competitors are basically phone companies. So we have to get our heads around that.

I don't have a problem bringing in the CBC to talk at our digital media study about what it is doing in the digital platforms. That's great. But if it is being posited the way Pablo has said about the new reality, then that is something we have to address specifically, and it's not something we can just throw in.

We are on the verge of a profound change in the delivery of broadcast, and we're putting money through the Canadian Media Fund that is tied to the broadcast envelopes, when some of the producers are going to want to actually cut those strings and get out altogether. If we're going to phone applications and other digital platforms, everything is starting to change. We're going to at least have to spend a bit of time getting our heads around this.

I would oppose this motion at this present time, not oppose where we want to go with it, but I think we have to deal with this digital study, and we have to look at this. To me they are separate entities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

On the contrary, I think this study is directly related to the future of the CBC. It is entitled “Digital and Emerging Media: Opportunities and Challenges”. It is clear that Canada's public broadcaster, which broadcasts programming in both official languages, is directly affected by a study of this nature and by the new reality that is emerging. At the very least, I would like to have CBC officials appear before the committee to discuss the corporation's future and how it will be impacted by digital and emerging media. At the same time, we could also discuss vertical integration. Given the unique universe in which the public broadcaster is evolving, I would like to hear from these officials and get their take on the corporation's current situation and needs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

If there is no further debate, I'll put the question, and then we can sort out after how we're going to do this in terms of the digital media study.

If there is no further comment on Mr. Rodriguez's motion, I will put the question.

(Motion agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

As it stands right now, what I'm hearing from committee members is that on the Tuesday we get back after the break we will deal with Mr. Norlock's motion in that one meeting. Please submit your witnesses to the clerk, so that we can coordinate them and invite them well ahead of time. If you could get the witnesses to the clerk by the end of the week, that will give him a full week to coordinate the appearance of witnesses on the Tuesday that we get back.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Just for clarification, there will be two meetings, one for witnesses and one for--

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Frankly, I think we only need one meeting.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

So half of the meeting with witnesses? I agree with you. I think one meeting with a couple of witnesses--

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I think what we'll do is divide it into two panels of witnesses.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

What about clause-by-clause?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

What we'll do is have two panels of 50 minutes each and we'll devote the last 20 to 30 minutes to clause-by-clause.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That could be tight. Can we have the first two hours for witnesses and--

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

There are only three clauses in this bill.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Well, that's a lot.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

So it's not going to take more than half an hour. If you want to spend two meetings on it, I'm prepared to do that.