Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 18th, 2010

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I have the method by which you can monetize it. If you own the pipes you're broadcasting over--if you're the wireless transmitter or the BDU--that's how you monetize it. That's why vertical integration is so important.

As I said, I'm really concerned. I agree with the CRTC looking at a pick-and-pay system. I think consumers should have the opportunity to choose what they want to watch. That's what they've indicated.

[Martha Fusca]

That's what they've indicated, but that's not what's going to happen.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I am deeply concerned that what we're hearing today is a suggestion that if we can just get this through, it will fix our business model. I think the model is changing so quickly that the idea that a paragraph 9(1)(h) licence will rebalance things.... It's an extremely temporary fix. Frankly, fee-for-carriage is dead, because nobody wants it.

On the issue around the Canada Media Fund, I'm deeply concerned about the BDU contribution to that. As we see new entrants coming into the market and eating away at BDU penetration, the fund itself will drop.

So I think there are a number of concerns here, and I really encourage you to take a look at that, because building a business model around paragraph 9(1)(h) is problematic.

[Martha Fusca]

We only mentioned that as part of our thing, by the way.

The interesting thing is that they own access to all of those platforms anyway, so if you're losing market share on one, they're already covered on the whole--

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I agree.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Madam Fusca.

Mr. Roberts is next, before we go to Ms. Dhalla.

[Bill Roberts]

We have this smart Canadian guy named Marshall McLuhan. He said they all kind of morph and survive somehow and find their place. So radio didn't disappear, film didn't disappear, and television's not going to disappear.

That's one response, Dean. The second part is that regulation got us into this. It was a constructed thing. We have some tools that we can still use today as bridging tools and adjustment tools. We can buy some time. We can figure things out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Roberts.

Madam Dhalla.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you very much.

Just touching on what Dean Del Mastro was speaking about in not having cable in five years, there are a lot of communities I know of in rural parts of Canada that don't even have access to the Internet yet. In five years they hope they will get access to the Internet and they're still going to be utilizing their cable.

Going back to ethnic communities, I know many of the people who have come, perhaps seniors in recent years, and my parents' generation as well--I mean, we're still trying to teach my mom how to figure out the whole concept of e-mail. They're watching their programs on television, so I think those licences and that programming are essential.

Bill, you have to be congratulated for your work with Vision TV. It's done a great deal of great work in bringing issues forward for ethnic communities across the country. For anyone who hasn't seen it on any Saturday, from morning to night, Vision is doing great programming. Congratulations.

I want to touch upon a topic you mentioned. I had asked the chairman previously in the panel with regard to the licences for some of the ethnic media programming. They spoke glowingly about the category B licences. You're telling me the question that wasn't asked was in regard to the launch. You said that in an approximation of about 400 licences issued, only about 90 had been launched. Can you please describe why some of these other 310 licences that perhaps have been granted haven't been launched? Perhaps the committee can learn from the reasons behind that to give proper recommendations moving forward to ensure there aren't those sorts of pending licences waiting. That's quite a high number.

[Bill Roberts]

Do I get that one?

[A voice]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Go ahead, Mr. Roberts.

[Bill Roberts]

Well, I think Dean answered the question. If you own the pipes, you own the means to distribution and you can launch them.

One of our members of the IBG, the Independent Broadcast Group, is ethnic media channels. SLAV11, which I think is in tomorrow's “Report on Business”--a little plug for a colleague--has been fighting exactly that fight, to get properly licensed and to get launched, and basically he's being told no by BDUs.

There's another thing I want to correct in terms of numbers. Konrad was absolutely right that television viewing is going up. What's interesting about where it's going up is that it's in the 45-plus demographic. Why is that important? It's important because 80% of this country's wealth is controlled by the 45-plus demographic; 70% of the people who voted for you are 45-plus; 70% of the electorate is 45-plus. They love television. They want to see diversity of voices and ownership on their television screens. I think that's important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Mr. Keller, did you have anything to add to this? You've not said much, but we're interested in your piece.

[Mike Keller]

We're all broadcasters, but we're in different ends of the spectrum here. As a conventional broadcaster with a strong affiliate relationship with both CBC and CTV and on the verge of spending a couple of million dollars on digital transmitters, I feel like a bit of a dinosaur.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[An. hon. member]

Once you have the transmitters, you're going to be ahead of the rest of them.

[Mike Keller]

I really have no more to add to this. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Mr. Simms, did you have anything?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

No, I'm good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

Monsieur Pomerleau.

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have a brief question, Mr. Chairman.

On page 10 of your brief, you say, and I quote:

In 2009, in Public Notice CRTC 2009-732, the CRTC stated as follows (at paragraph 16): “Once the Commission has adopted new criteria to assess applications for mandatory distribution pursuant to section 9(1)(h) of the Act, it intends to provide programming services with an opportunity to file applications for 9(1)(h) status and to amend or resubmit applications already filed. The Commission may then proceed with a public hearing to consider these applications.”

As you say, it announced in late summer that it was putting that project on ice. There was a moratorium. We won't get into that again.

What reasons were given for doing that? That was the most significant about-face we saw all year.

[Joel Fortune, Barrister and Solicitor, Joel R Fortune Professional Corporation, Independent Broadcasters Group]

I think what they said was that for technological, economic, and regulatory reasons due to the changes occurring in the broadcasting system they felt it wouldn't be prudent to hold a hearing to examine the applications they had received. That's almost literal...not quite, but pretty close.

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Is that all? That is almost Kafkaesque.

[Suzanne Gouin]

At the same time, it's important to state that a number of channels are currently seeking licence renewals. That clearly means that the business model one is associated with could imply a different distribution. People around this table may not know this, but for your information, a channel like TV5, which has 2.4 million subscribers in Quebec, actually has 4.4 million subscribers outside Quebec. So, this is a channel that is distributed in the majority of your ridings. It is important for Francophones who are a minority in their community, and because distributors might not be as concerned about a diversity of voices or the need to present French content, there is a danger that it will no longer be offered with basic cable if deregulation occurs.