Canadian Heritage Committee on April 13th, 2010

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

It depends on the purpose and how it's being used. It depends on who you're talking to. Consumers often see it the same way--not always, but often.

If you pay a toll, that can be seen as a fee. If it's going to pay for a bridge and is time-limited for a particular budget, it may not be, but if you're paying a fee for an ongoing service--for example, the air security charge--and it's dedicated to that in an envelope and it's transparent that it's for that envelope, it may not be seen that way. It's in the eye of the beholder.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

It's beholding your eye. In several cases...

My colleague has said that it's out of pocket, so that's it, period.

I think if you have a dedicated fee, it's not necessarily a tax if it does a good thing. Is that right? I don't mean to chase you around in circles, but there are a couple of things in here that we get caught up on when it comes to these fees and who is paying for what. We have a levy that's being talked about here, or a tax, depending on what you want to call it. Would you call it a tax?

We had a major decision, or lack thereof, concerning fee for carriage. This was a hands-off decision that basically said that negotiations will take place between two people. They are very distinct. They have their own opinions, and they are very strong. You have been drawn into that to an extent. I don't know what you can comment on that, but some people would say it's a tax while others would say it's an ongoing investment in local television. In your eye, where does it sit?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I don't agree with you that there are two groups--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I didn't say an opinion; I just asked you a question.

Okay, there are two... Never mind; carry on.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

My opinion is that what we Canadians received in the report from the CRTC is the end of the beginning of the debate. This is going to be a long process. It's before the courts now.

You asked me to comment on something that, frankly, is still evolving. The CRTC has put forward a mechanism, and we don't know the outcome of that. We don't know what negotiations might look like. We don't know what the court of appeal is going to say in terms of mandates and the capacities of people to do certain things. We're a long way from being able to judge what the outcome of all of this will be, quite frankly.

What I was going to say was that I don't agree with the assessment that there are two groups. I don't know if it's yours or whatever, but I don't think it's quite true that there are just the broadcasters and the cable and satellite companies. I think the biggest group is made up of consumers. In my judgment, they're the biggest unrepresented stakeholder group, and they ought to be constantly referred to in this dynamic.

Everyday consumers want to have, as Ms. Dhalla referenced, the dynamic to have local diversity and content and multilingual services. Consumers are also worried about their bottom line and being able to save for retirement and have affordable services.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

But they're going to pay more, right?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

We'll see.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

One of the issues I'm very concerned about is the digital transition in general. I don't see any hands-on here from the Canadian government in the transition to digital. I'm talking about 2011 and the August deadline that has been put forward.

What is the government doing to help these people make the transition to digital?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

You have one minute.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

There are lot of lessons to be learned about what others have done in the U.K. and the United States, and we're taking those into consideration. We have until August 2011.

Minister Tony Clement has his digital strategy, which I think he's launching in the next month or so, and it will be a key component. We want to make sure that all Canadians are aware of the transition coming in 2011 and that they prepare for it. We want to make sure they have the hardware in their homes to receive digital signals and that they call their local cable or satellite companies to ensure that they have the equipment they need for ongoing television reception and that rabbit ears--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

How much money do you want to invest in this? How much money do you think we should be investing in this?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

That's an impossible question to answer without having done an assessment.

This is an important question. The CRTC says 9%, but how many people who are not prepared for the digital transition are people who voluntarily choose not to, young Canadians who now use iTunes instead, or young people who just buy DVDs and watch them on their own, independently? How many people, frankly, are members of religious communities who just choose not to consume television? How many people are new Canadians who don't want to buy big cable packages because there's not much in there that is in the language they choose? And let's be honest, a lot of them are people who are economically struggling and aren't going to be purchasing new television sets for the digital era.

So the 9% number may be true, but the dynamic of that and how big of a demand there is and how much concern there ought to be needs to be taken into consideration.

So does geography, by the way. Most of the 9% is in urban centres, which says that probably a dominant cohort of the 9% is young people who aren't interested in television any more because they see it as an old technology, or people who economically have bigger struggles that we need to probably spend more time worrying about than TV.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Bruinooge, and then we'll finish with Mr. Angus.

Mr. Bruinooge, please.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Minister Moore, for your presentation. Personally, I found it to be very good and I very much appreciated it.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I promised him Carole's gift.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

In relation to the $350 million for the Canada Media Fund that you announced, I think it was on April 1, you talk often about different formats that this money can be made available to, other than what we appreciate as being maybe traditional media formats. Could you expand on that statement a little and talk about how you see some of that capital being invested in other forms that we don't necessarily often talk about as politicians?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I don't know if this comment will get me in trouble, but here I go. I joke sometimes with Minister Clement that I decided to get involved in politics in order to support my technology habit. Anyhow, you can get me going, talking about technology and devices. Actually, it's a very exciting universe, what the possibilities are.

One of the members we appointed to the board of the Canada Media Fund is Glenn Wong, the former head of Electronic Arts. Not only is he a very high-quality appointment, he's a very bright guy and he'll add a lot to the team at the Canada Media Fund. But the reason I wanted to appoint him is because I want to send an important signal that platforms are all merging.

If you turn on an Xbox 360 and you go to the Xbox live menu, you'll realize that personal computers, television sets, phones, and game consoles are all merging, and they're all very quickly becoming basically the same thing. The goal of the Canada Media Fund is to recognize some shifting technologies and the fact that we don't know ultimately where consumers are going to end. It's probably going to end, I suppose as we transition, as a mishmash of things. Some people are going to say they're more comfortable watching television on a set, on a couch, with family--that environment. Some people will say they prefer to watch television on their laptop when they fly, and they're going to want to consume television that way. The idea is to invest and support the creation of Canadian content and to make sure it's available on multiple platforms.

One of the criteria for receiving funding is that you're creating shows that will be available on multiple platforms. The private sector and public sector do this already, and we want to encourage more of that. For example, I'll talk about CBC. Q, with Jian Ghomeshi, is a radio show that's available online for free in video podcast. Because I'm usually working, I never have the opportunity to listen to Q, as it's broadcast live on CBC, but I watch it all the time in video format, usually on my phone. Here is a traditional radio show being broadcast in video that I'm watching on my phone. You get the dynamic of it: content that is created for one medium, but I'm consuming it on a different medium that it wasn't originally intended for. It's all because the CBC has decided to embrace new media and push it forward in that way. They've done a very good job of that.

On the CBC as well there's Evan Solomon's show, Power & Politics. I never watch it just because of the time of day it's on, but I listen to it all the time. I download it in audio format and listen to it on my iPod. So I listen to a television show on a device that wasn't created when the idea of a politics show was first invented, and I watch a television show on a device that was invented before the radio show was ever designed.

All these platforms are combining. You can watch movies on your video game console. You can listen to radio shows through your television set. We don't want Canadian content to lose out on this dynamic. We want to make sure that people are embracing and pushing this forward.

In the private sector, we announced the creation of the Canadian Media Fund last year on Flashpoint on CTV. Flashpoint is a very successful show; it has done very well on CTV. It's on Friday nights. They show it on prime time. I think their longer-term success has been to break down a lot of barriers. You see Flashpoint streaming live on the Internet. You can download episodes one-off if you want to and make them portable. They've allowed people to do that.

This is an important universe, and we want to make sure that funding is available so that Canadian producers and content providers are keeping in mind that the audience isn't just metro Vancouver or the francophone in Quebec, but is global. To be able to show your creativity and excellence to an international audience, you have to embrace new technologies and make sure you're doing it effectively. We want to encourage that, so we're funding that, and we're doing it with the Canada Media Fund and the music fund. We're doing it in every way we can.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

The final question is for Mr. Angus, please.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

The Telecommunications Act was defined as a national priority because control over Canada's telecommunications sector, satellites, cable, and broadcast was considered essential for national sovereignty.

The government has made it very clear that it's looking to bring in foreign competition. We're now looking at changes to satellite phones and so on. We're dealing with a vertically integrated market, so your ISPs or your telephone servers who run your radio stations are tied into your newspapers and television.

My question is simple. Given the fact that we are creating a precedent, do you believe that Canada should still maintain Canadian control and Canadian sovereignty over our broadcast and media industries?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I think any changes that are even considered should only be considered through the lens of answering the question whether they benefit Canada. Benefiting Canada means Canadian content, making sure that any operation in Canada respects the best interests and the guidelines that were set out and decided for by the elected government, reflecting the best interests of Canada for our official languages, respecting our diversity, and supporting Canadian content.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Up until now—until you just said that—it's always been about the consumer: you're the minister of the consumer and no taxes.

If a bid came forward at this time, would you suggest that we change our laws, or do you think the laws that have been put in place to maintain our broadcast and media sovereignty should stay in place? Is it yes or no?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

You can't ask for a yes or no on something that isn't real. Obviously, I can't answer a hypothetical question on something that isn't actually before us, but any possibility of any such change would have the best minds...yes, consumers, but what is in the best interests of Canada is our first thing. Frankly, I can't answer a hypothetical question about what—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

But would you consider it if it came forward? Would you look at it? You wouldn't say, well, that's against Canadian law, that would be extraordinary, we'd never do this; it would go against where we've been as a country and where we've been in our media policy. You'd say, well, it would depend. “Depend” means we don't have to talk about AT&T taking over CTV; we just have to ask, if a case came, would you consider it?