Canadian Heritage Committee on April 24th, 2012

[Pierre Wilson]

The 150th anniversary celebrations are very important, we agree, but before then, other less prominent museums that are in trouble will first have to survive. In other words, what good will the 150th anniversary do? These institutions may no longer even be around to celebrate it. So thinking about continuity and survival is equally important. As I see it, your role, as parliamentarians tasked with studying Canada's 150th anniversary, is to make certain that it is more than just a day-long or year-long celebration. It all requires planning and sustainability.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

You said the museum had sought its own revenue sources, but you also said that there was a limit to just how much the museum could do. Could you elaborate on that please?

[Pierre Wilson]

We have done that for years. From 2002 to 2008, private museums in Quebec increased sponsorship and patronage revenues by 171%. Obviously, the problem we face is that everyone in the cultural sector is competing for patronage. I don't think society has an infinite supply of patrons. At some point, the well is going to run dry. It's getting tougher and tougher.

In my opinion, governments should provide indexed funding. We aren't asking for a full-on increase, just enough to allow for inflation, because we cannot get around that reality.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

At least two of the museums here today are small museums. I think the New Brunswick Museum is a bit larger than the other two, but small institutions are not in quite the same boat as the larger ones. Someone—and I can't remember who—said that it might be time to provide support tailored to small museums. What kind of tailoring are we talking about? Ms. Baxter, for instance, mentioned grants, which are harder to go after when you rely solely on volunteers. What could be tailored to help smaller museums?

[Judith Baxter]

You can't hire and you can't fire volunteers, so it all depends on the quality of the volunteer you have at the time who can apply for the applications.

The applications could be dumbed down a whole lot. They are pretty elaborate pieces of paper, which get shoved away because people don't want to deal with them. There might be a simpler form that someone in that area could look at.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

If you want to plan activities marking the 150th anniversary, the paperwork requirements could be simpler there, as well. Is that what you are saying?

[Judith Baxter]

Yes. I would definitely say so, especially for small museums or volunteer operations. Rural establishments don't usually have access to lawyers to read these things and get us on the right track, so a simpler form would be very nice.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Does anyone else have anything to add?

[Jane Fullerton]

I would add that small community museums—and here I'd point out that the New Brunswick Museum is the big sister to the community museums in the province, so we work a lot with community museums—are quite often limited in their ability to access certain kinds of federal heritage programs because they don't have a paid employee. That also limits what they are able to do in other ways.

I think as you are looking at the 150th, it would be really important to have opportunities to have programs that museums can apply for whether or not they have a full-time staff person, as would be having simpler forms. It's important to ensure that it doesn't matter what your employee situation is, that if it's a volunteer person doing it, you can still access the money.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Trudeau.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

One of the things we heard in the previous hour was an emphasis on youth and Canada 150. I know the youth issue came back a little bit from you, Judith, but also from the others, and there are concerns about the aging volunteer workforce.

When we talk about museums in particular, it sometimes becomes difficult to get young people interested or excited about engaging with our history. What kinds of things do you think the federal government could do to encourage young people to connect with museums around Canada 150?

[Judith Baxter]

I really liked your representative for tourism, who I thought had a perfectly good idea.

I would go back to Katimavik. I have some experience on the ground with Katimavik. It's a super program and a really good idea.

The only thing with the Katimavik program was that you were bringing kids from across the nation and these kids were dumped into communities that weren't prepared for them. Although we could make out the application beautifully and say we wanted six barns in our community painted, these kids didn't want to paint barns. It was hard for a community like ours to really take hold of that program.

However, there are programs for moving kids around the country that are very good. The Terry Fox program right now works beautifully. It brings kids from all across the country and they get the experience of Ottawa and learning about government.

I think the social media is certainly going to be a big hook in whatever kids do today. I really like our little idea of our six degrees of separation from the Fathers of Confederation. I'm sure every Newfoundlander would love it; they all have a Joey story. I'm sure we could bring the history forward.

Justin, all you have to do is to get dressed up in a top hat and you're going to fit the part with that hairdo.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you, Judith.

Does anyone else have comments on youth involvement?

[Jane Fullerton]

I would certainly like to reinforce the opportunity for technology. In museums, when they get to grade 7 and grade 8 it's definitely hard to keep kids engaged. They are very excited when they're younger.

I think there are opportunities for technology and linking to other parts of Canada to have other experiences. There's a program called Students on Ice that provides opportunities for kids to connect. We've had school classes come into the New Brunswick Museum who've talked to kids and families in the Northwest Territories. It's really strong: they're learning first-hand from their own peers about experiences in other parts of Canada. It makes them come back to spend time in the museum and look at some of the material we have from the Arctic.

There are opportunities to do that with technology. The technology can be a bit of a trick as far as the cost and being able to manage it are concerned. But if there's support for that, I think there are ways to bring in youth, especially in that critical time period between about 13 years old and 18 or 19 years old, to get them engaged and to get them want to continue. It's really important. They have to be a major part of the 150th.

I have memories, as well, of 1967. We want everybody to have those memories and to care about what they're going to see in museums and every other part of Canada. I think technology is going to be a big part of that.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Wilson, could you tell us about youth and master artisans?

[Pierre Wilson]

We have a project that is still in the early stages, that is still being developed. The objective is to make our programs accessible to school groups via the Internet. So it involves real-time visits, as well as virtual visits.

The basic idea is to take the stories we have within our museum walls and to share them with schoolchildren across the country over the Internet. We came up with that idea because of the high cost of busing students to the museum. There is a radius of about 20 kilometres, and schools farther away than that do not visit the museum. We figured this was a good way to reach people across Quebec, so why not those in Newfoundland or Vancouver? Ultimately, we want to conquer the world.

With today's technology, a project of this nature takes money. As far as the 150th anniversary celebrations go, projects could be put in place quickly to make sure that a number of institutions offered this programming by 2017. The New Brunswick Museum could also join in and offer exhibits to schoolchildren in Montreal and Vancouver.

We are still in the very early phases on this. I just gave a bit of information. I have approached the Société des arts technologiques à Montréal or SAT for technical assistance, because we do not have the necessary resources. But this is a project that could be set up quickly.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Indeed, and it would be a network. It would include not just you, but everyone.

[Pierre Wilson]

The goal is to develop it for everyone. I don't have the money for that.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

If I could just perhaps correct the record on Katimavik, it is not about painting barns in any case. It's about....

Have any of you had Katimavik volunteers go through your museums in years past?

Jane.

[Jane Fullerton]

In years past we've certainly had them, both in New Brunswick and Alberta, where I worked for a while. It depends a bit on the individual and what he or she looks to get out of it, but there are certainly some great learning opportunities as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Trudeau.

Thank you to our panel for your suggestions and advice. We certainly look forward as a committee to our report and recommendations to government on this issue.

We have another committee that's coming in right now, so could we vacate the room as quickly as possible.

The meeting is adjourned.