Canadian Heritage Committee on April 26th, 2012

[Marie-Claude Reid]

I'm not a specialist on that theme. My curator is in a better position than I am to talk about it because he is preparing an exhibition on the subject.

At the time of the events, Canadian railway troops worked hard to dig underground railways in Europe and to repair the railway lines that were being dismantled with whatever resources they could find. That was highly characteristic of the railway workers who had acquired experience in Canada. At the time, development in the Rockies and across the north often required them to find ways of doing things and certain tools in order to innovate and be able to make repairs quickly. The Canadian railway troops did that job, which helped win the battle of Vimy Ridge, among others.

When I get back, I will ask my curator to give me some details on his research, which I will forward to you. The railway component is one of the main reasons why the allies paid great tribute to Canadian troops.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

It allowed the quick mobilization of troops so they could build up a great force right before an offensive. They were able to mobilize troops much more quickly. The expertise that Canadians had in the development and implementation of railways was very valuable in mobilizing and transporting troops. For Vimy Ridge in particular, there was a huge buildup directly before that, which was undetected by the Germans.

Moving on to the question of financial support for museums, I'm going to ask Ms. Bélanger a question.

You said that you almost need to know by 2013 what programs are going to be in place so you'll have time to prepare. We asked other museums this earlier, and they said they needed at least two years. So would between two to three years be adequate to allow you to put a proper program in place?

[Michelle Bélanger]

Because of the size of the museum, planning a long time ahead would be better for us. We don't have a curator at the museum, so with only five people working at the museum on a full-time basis, it would be very difficult. If we know three years in advance what the program will be, we will participate if the funds were there. It's not a matter of how much time we will have but what funds will be available. If there are only small programs of $2,000 to $3,000 per museum, it won't be worth expending all this effort, the investment in human resources, etc. That's why it's important to have a réseau, a group of museums all together. It could be by theme or by region, but if we receive funds for a group of museums, that would be more appropriate to develop a very nice program.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you for that.

I'm going to move on to Parks Canada really quickly. My question is about infrastructure.

You discussed the idea of building new infrastructure and investing finance in infrastructure. Would it be also possible to focus on looking at what we already have and maybe rebranding it, for example, maybe taking a new park or a new historic site and calling it Sesquicentennial Park? Would there be some options for Parks Canada to look at those types of initiatives?

[Carol Sheedy]

I imagine we could explore that and probably have it as a tag line or a branding for our specific initiative on the road to 2017. We intend, as I mentioned earlier, to align our presentations in our national parks and national historic sites as much as possible to 2017. So this could be something that we could put in place.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

What role did Parks Canada have in the centennial in 1967, and also the 125th anniversary? Did Canada invest in infrastructure? Did they rebrand things? Could you describe a little bit about the history of Parks Canada in celebrating our milestones?

[Carol Sheedy]

I don't think Parks Canada was actively engaged in 1967 or in the 125th anniversary. To my knowledge, the first time we became very actively involved and had one of our buildings branded was with the 400th anniversary in Quebec, as I described earlier, where we invested and contributed to the development of Espace 400^e.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

I would really like to thank all those who have come to meet with us this morning. This is a meeting full of information. We rarely have such long and informative presentations.

First of all, I would like to inform Mr. Gill and Ms. Bélanger that the lack of enthusiasm or the reservations—the word "reservations" is poorly chosen, but you understand what I mean—that they feel toward the celebrations for the 150^th anniversary have previously been expressed here by other spokespersons. I hope we will be able to produce a report that, beyond the celebrations of Canada's 150^th anniversary and its future, will take into account the need to evoke history and to do some housekeeping. Ideally, we shouldn't boast too much about our roots at a time when problems are still unsolved, particularly in northern Ontario. It's all well and good to organize a party, but if the roof is leaking, it's better to repair it first. I hope that is indeed taken into account.

You also provided a good description of the financial situation of museums, which is always very difficult. That's particularly true of small museums such as yours, which are established in communities. You talked at length about the possibility of rallying all the museums, of establishing networks and themes. I have previously discussed the idea of establishing a pass for the museums which would cost $150. I don't know whether that could be tax deductable, since a donation would be made to a local museum. You would keep half of that amount and the other half would be used to fund the program. The idea would be to network and to invite people to go to their local museum to buy a pass so that they could enter other museums across Canada free of charge. There is a direct connection with trains, which no doubt helped build Canada.

As I am not an actuary, I can't calculate the costs involved, but the fact nevertheless remains that this project could be a relatively profitable investment in the context of the celebrations. How do you react to that kind of idea?

[Michelle Bélanger]

That's a very good question. In 1967, I was very young; I was two and a half years old. My parents went to Expo 67 almost every weekend. My father worked there. The Expo passport has been carefully preserved at home.

Museums are the guardians of our heritage, because they conserve objects, but, given the people who work there and the activities presented there, they are also very lively places. A passport would be a kind of throwback, a nod to 1967. We're talking about a physical visit, but as I mentioned earlier, it is also important to go and discover the thousands of objects that every museum has in its museum reserves. We also have to be able to exhibit them.

I believe the passport is a winning idea. We would have to see. In that case, the museums visited would be compensated. Earlier I mentioned Médiat-Muse. A territorial exhibition was produced and involved costs to visitors. That experience was really very successful, at the Musée des Abénakis, among other places.

[Jean-Denis Gill]

That might be a good idea. However, for some museums such as ours, which is located in a slightly more remote region, relations with other museums are somewhat limited. There are a few in the region, but not many. There might be less interest in this kind of passport among people in the area than among people in the major centres, where it might be a good option, but it would have slightly more mixed success in the regions.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

That leads me to the subject of trains, which I want to address briefly. You suggest that would not be very appealing to the local clientele, but the goal is to make Canadians travel inside Canada. If people in your town buy their passport at your little museum so they can have cheaper access to VIA Rail in order to go to Toronto to see a museum, there may be some interest. I would like to emphasize how interesting physical contact with the object can be. I also hope the locomotive that is going to London will be back here by 2017. It would really be unfortunate if it were not.

[Marie-Claude Reid]

That's obviously a condition of the loan.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

It's a big item.

[Marie-Claude Reid]

It's important for the country. We do not collect foreign locomotives, but that one and the one from France were gifts that the organization agreed to accept in the context of very special celebrations.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

That's it.

I would like to verify something regarding the aboriginal and Abenaki museums. One day, we heard from some people who talked about Black History Month. They mentioned an exhibition called "Missing Pages". I thought that talking about missing pages in history was an interesting idea.

Do you believe that each of your museums could consider creating a missing pages committee so that each of the communities represented could say what, in its view, has been poorly told? The Acadian coalition also mentioned this.

[Jean-Denis Gill]

I think that might be a good idea. That could be an opportunity to focus on the positive parts of history, on the aboriginal contribution to the history of Canada, not just to go back to the discovery.

We recently filled a blank page with regard to the entire residential schools issue. It may not yet be completely written. It's a slightly darker part of history, but we can focus on the somewhat more positive parts. This could indeed be an opportunity to do that.

[Marie-France Kenny]

That is somewhat the idea we suggested today in connection with a book. First of all, we realize that history is being taught less and less. I read the comments by committee members on this point. And we are teaching a history that is often viewed from a single perspective. For us, it is important that we first recognize the entire contribution by the first nations, that founding people—they aren't often called a founding people, but they are—by the Métis, by the francophone and anglophone communities. We should have a book that reflects all those perspectives. A Quebecker will not tell the story in the same way as I do, nor will a member of a first nation. It is important to give our young people this tool, which reflects all Canadian perspectives, our common history.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Do you believe we could ask each of these storytellers to gather their versions together in a single work rather than spend five years trying to determine how to write it?

[Marie-France Kenny]

Yes, absolutely. That is why we suggest striking a committee that will take the components of society into account. A single history textbook should be produced including all these various perspectives. This is an option that would enable the young people to whom we teach this history to form their own opinions. We will not impose an opinion on them.

[Le président, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Trudeau.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you very much.

I'm pleased to see you here today. This is the second time I have attended a committee meeting like this one; I am replacing a colleague so that I can hear all these discussions on the 150^th anniversary. I'm very pleased that we are receiving, both on Tuesday and today, so many representatives of museums, some of which are small, that have come to make a presentation. I believe that, if we make a success of this 150^th anniversary, that will enable us to break through everywhere.

There was the exhibition in 1967. That was the big event that brought an entire country together, and we made a considerable impact. It was proposed that the 2017 exhibition be held in Edmonton, but that proposal was not supported by the government. So we are now faced with the challenge of trying to bring people together having regard to Canada's diversity. I believe that may also be something very positive.

In response to my question, I would like to hear the perspective of the aboriginal and francophone communities first and foremost. It must be said that they often have different perspectives from those of the Canadian majority regarding a celebration such as the 150^th anniversary.

In addition to identity aspects, are there any themes in particular that you think more readily lend themselves to a pan-Canadian celebration that would reflect local issues of interest to your communities?

[Jean-Denis Gill]

I said something about specific themes earlier. I believe this is in large part a matter of recognition. If all of us, across Canada, are able to work on aspects that enable us to be recognized as a people, through our history and through our contribution to the creation of Canada, we will already have taken a major step.

I don't want to fall into the whole issue of negotiations or debate on lands and land use, but the fact remains that the general attitude of governments toward aboriginal peoples also has a role to play in all that. People have to treat each other with respect.

If, in the context of the 150^th anniversary, we put in place measures or actions that recognize respect for and shared recognition of each of the peoples, I believe we will have taken a big step.

[Marie-France Kenny]

We agree with that. For us, it's the whole issue of dialogue and getting to know each other.

I am Fransaskoise, and I live in Saskatchewan. My anglophone neighbour may not know me, and I may not know him either. It's important to have that dialogue. We put forward the idea of a youth Parliament. We have one; it's francophone, but we don't want a francophone youth Parliament; we want one that really is representative of Canada. So it would include first nations, Métis, anglophones and francophones.

You have an interpretation service here. Why not have a real Parliament with young people who would come and consider issues of dialogue, pride and belonging and who could table bills in Parliament, things for us? That would be an opportunity for exchange for our young people.

Sometimes I get the feeling—and I would say this is partly true—that our young people are more open to the world than the people of previous generations. They no longer wonder whether they will speak to their first nation neighbour, whether they will learn English or French. They wonder what other language they're going to learn, to whom else they can speak. Our young people are more open.

Perhaps that is what we Canadians should draw inspiration from. To my mind, if we see young Canadians from all parts of society come together in Parliament to debate issues such as that, the entire question of identity and pride will emerge, and we will get the impression, first, that we are speaking to each other and getting to know each other. I believe that will have a significant impact, not only at that moment, but for the future of this country.

[Michelle Bélanger]

I sincerely believe that the theme is diversity; not just culture, but diversity from one province to the next. We have different landscapes, different climates and weather; the people who live there are different; there is language, the first nations.

In two weeks, we will be presenting a temporary exhibition called Fibres du monde, or Quilt of Belongings, which was presented at the Canadian Museum of Civilization, in Gatineau, with which you are familiar. This mural, this tapestry, in fact represents 263 nations present in Canada: 70 first nations and 193 immigrant nations. It's unfortunate that it's being presented this year; I would have presented it in 2017. I believe it is what we want to show our visitors; that is to say that there is diversity in Canada and we must be proud of it. People must discover that diversity, and that is what we are trying show at the museum.