Canadian Heritage Committee on April 26th, 2012

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you very much.

I'll change to the railway side of things. Obviously, I'm very pleased that all of you have made the point that the railways formed an extremely important part of the foundation and creation of Canada as a successful country in the post-Confederation years.

These days, however, if you look in the news there are discussions about CP and CN's delivery of services. There are concerns around the subsidies to VIA Rail. Rail is not getting perhaps the positive attention that it could be and should be.

Certainly I'm one of those who thinks that rail represents a really important part of our future as we look towards high-speed transit between Calgary and Edmonton, for example, and along the Quebec–Windsor corridor.

How do you see not just celebrating the past of rail in Canada but also the present and the future of rail in Canada, folded into the 150th anniversary celebrations?

[Marie-Claude Reid]

When we address the railway theme—

Sorry, I'll switch to French. I'm more comfortable in French.

When we address the railway theme, we do so from all angles. For example, last summer, when we celebrated the 175^th anniversary of the first railway, there were, on our site, the very recent, very modern equipment of VIA Rail Canada, representatives of the Railway Association of Canada and available publications of Canadian Geographic concerning the current situation of railways and the contribution and development of new hybrid locomotive technologies. All that helps to inform visitors about what is going on and about the environmental benefits of this mode of transportation, which is often for intercity transportation, but also to cover long distances, and to encourage it.

So our role involved presenting very contemporary, current, modern objects and objects from the past, exhibitions, demonstrations, talks and theatre. Art was present in all its forms and grouped together based on themes, which could be simultaneously from the past, present and future.

We have also taken virtual action, made outdoor presentations, helped develop books and established partnerships in which we can address the current railway system. Our role is obviously to make young and old alike aware of the importance of rail transit, but also to inform them about the importance of the railway system, which represents 75% of freight transportation and 77 million passengers a year in Canada. These things are part of our environment, but people forget about them because they are part of our everyday life. In a way, it is important for us to be able to provide a forum so that we can further develop this aspect and encourage people to do so. So we are doing it; we would like to do it more, and we are also doing it through other partnerships in order to get it done.

[Le président, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Gill.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also want to thank the witnesses for being here with us today and for your wonderful presentations.

We've heard a lot about 1967 and how wonderful the celebrations were back then, even though some of us were not around at the time to witness them. I also feel that over the last many years since 1967, Canada has changed considerably in terms of new Canadians and other dynamics.

What is your organization doing, or what can you do, to reach out to new Canadians to get them to participate in Canada's 150th birthday? Anyone?

[Marie-France Kenny]

First, I'd like to say that francophone communities no longer have one culture. Francophone communities outside Quebec have several cultures and, because of immigration, in 2006, 13% of francophones outside of Quebec were new immigrants. So francophones are very much part of our community.

As for néo-Canadiens, new arrivals who speak English or any other language, it's important that they take part in these celebrations and that we recognize them as well. When we talk about establishing dialogues between the different components of society, we of course do include new immigrants. They are part of this country. They contribute to every sector of this country.

[Michelle Bélanger]

However, it is very difficult to attract new Canadians to new museums, and I don't mean just the Musée des Abénakis. I belong to an association of museums and tourist businesses, and I know this clientele is very difficult to attract to museums. So both Canadian Heritage and the museum associations will have to consider how they can attract them. Perhaps we are not offering them what they are looking for in a museum that they are not used to visiting. As a museum, we wonder how to attract this clientele.

[Marie-Claude Reid]

We have previously tried to reach the cultural communities. Contacting the organizations and media of those communities is a good way to let them know that we exist. In our minds, the railway theme is universal. For newcomers, for example, the railway is a very easy reference point because the railway story, which is a benefit in North America and in most countries around the world, began virtually around the same time, give or take 20 years. Everyone has a heritage or a history of his or her country that can be transposed. In a country where people have immigrated, or where their family immigrated before them, they can see how to set guideposts and understand more and more about Canadian history, based on the reference points of their own history. We can also try to reach them through the media of their communities, which is a major benefit, but we have to be able to do that and have the necessary resources to do so.

[Carol Sheedy]

For Parks Canada this is definitely one of the challenges that we have, in the sense that we realized that we were no longer at top of mind to a large percentage of Canadians because ethnocultural communities did not feel a sense of connection to national parks and national historic sites the way that people who have been in Canada for many generations had.

It was mainly an awareness issue. So the approach we've chosen to use is to target young families and school children through a variety of programs using the curriculum. For example, there's a grade 8 pass that allows them to come for free with their families. So one way to create the interest through the children is to have the families come to national parks and national historic sites.

As well learning to camp is something that a lot of people associate as a traditional national park experience, but has presented a lot of challenges for recently immigrants or new Canadians. So we're using our national historic site lands that are in the middle of large urban areas. For example, we organized a learn to camp session at the Halifax Citadel where, in collaboration with Mountain Equipment Co-op and Canadian Tire, we created a tent site.

There were people there who allowed young families, or more older families, to come in and have the experience of camping. Some of us learned to camp by sleeping in our backyards, but it's no longer necessarily something that people do. So we're offering them a chance to experience it that way. That's the entry point into the potential of discovering more about Canada's nature and going to a national park.

Similarly, as Madame Reid mentioned, when we develop interpretation programs in our national historic sites, we aim to build a bridge between the reality of the countries they come from and Canada's history. First of all, we present the multiple voices we have been discussing—not just one history but all the elements of the history—and also provide them with a reference point from their personal history of the country they came from.

We're explaining, for example, a war event or a social change in a context that resonates and is relevant to them from their reference points. We found that this approach has been very efficient, very effective, because it is really allowing them to discover Canada initially from their perspective and on their terms, making it their personal experience. Then they come out of that with a definition of their sense of Canada, their place in Canada, and the place of Canada in the world.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Gill.

Mr. Cash, for five minutes.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for being here.

I have some questions for Madame Kenny.

You talked about establishing a committee that would be responsible for coordinating the activities involved in the celebrations of the 150^th anniversary.

Why do you insist that the francophone and Acadian communities should be represented in those activities? Could you tell me more about how you would suggest that committee be constituted?

[Marie-France Kenny]

Thank you for your question.

As I said earlier, I am Fransaskoise. I am originally a Quebecker, and I must tell you that the vision in Quebec of a bilingual Canada and the vision that francophones outside Quebec have are completely different. We often get the feeling that, in government and elsewhere, people think that life in Quebec goes on in French and that there is

the rest of Canada. Well, I live in the rest of Canada. I'm a proud francophone. I'm bilingual, but I'm a proud francophone.

My francophonie is a different experience from that of the people from Quebec. I wouldn't claim to represent someone who comes from Quebec or his or her opinion. I expect people to respect the fact that Quebeckers alone do not represent the Canadian francophone community.

We have artists back home, as is the case across the country. There are 2.5 million individuals who speak French outside Quebec. The differences between Quebec and us should be recognized. However, we like Quebec very much; it's a partner in many areas, but we are completely different. So we would not want anyone to think that, because you have a French-speaking Quebecer on a committee, the francophone and Acadian communities are represented on that committee.

I would also like to emphasize another fact. We talked about the various components of society. It's important for us that the first nations and the Métis community be represented as well.

When I come here as a Canadian, yes, I represent the francophone and Acadian communities, but, to my mind, there is first of all a principle of justice, of equity. Everyone has to be taken into account. We are not minorities.

I am a proud Canadian who contributes, and the cheque I am going to sign tomorrow for my taxes proves it. I contribute in the same way as any member of Canadian society today. The same is true of newcomers, of our first nations and of everybody. We contribute in our way to the economic and cultural growth and heritage of this country. I see no minorities in our country. We are full-fledged citizens.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

You also referenced the importance, when agreements are signed with the provinces and with stakeholders, of having that linguistic duality in our country, that this fact needs to be woven into these agreements.

Can you expand on that and tell us why this is important?

[Marie-France Kenny]

We've had an Official Languages Act for 42 years. Governments, all governments, have timidly made commitments. We make commitments and provide funding, but when it comes to the federal government providing funding to a province, it has to include the official languages component or the linguistic duality clause, saying, “You know what? If we're going to provide you money for some legacy building, it needs to be bilingual. If we're going to provide money for celebrations, they need to be bilingual.”

Some people will say it's not possible across the country. Well, it is. As I said, there are 2.5 million of us. But when we did the Olympic relay, we reached 95% of the country; I can't remember exactly what it was, but we were within, I think, 10 or 25 kilometres of every Canadian across the country. All of the celebrations were done bilingually.

So that's important as well if we're going to give money to a province to distribute among the components. There are francophones in every province, every territory. We want to be part of those celebrations. We're proud to be Canadians. We want to celebrate, just like everybody else. We want to favour things where francophones celebrate but also where francophones, anglophones, first nations, and any Canadian can celebrate together, exchange, and dialogue. I think that's the important piece here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You have 15 seconds left, Mr. Cash.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Okay.

I'd like to thank you all for being here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Calandra.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

I'm actually going to ask a selfish question of the rail people. It has nothing to do with the 150th.

Hopefully no points of order will be made. I'll try to get it out first.

[A voice]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Paul, do we have a point of order...?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

I have what's called the “Acadia” railcar in my riding, at the Markham Museum. I'm told this railcar was used by governors general, and definitely used by Prime Ministers Diefenbaker and Pearson. I believe Prime Minister Trudeau was the last person to actually use the Acadia. It's a spectacular, marvellous train, built in the twenties.

The railcar is in desperate need of help, but obviously at the Markham Museum we don't have the expertise to do that. I wonder if you guys actually have people available who could come in and advise us on how we could upgrade that train and how much it would cost.

As part of Canada's 150th celebrations, is that something the Markham Museum should look at? Are there also examples of other such beautiful trains out there that we can look at fixing up?

[Garry Anderson]

I can try to answer this.

You can do anything with money.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Yes.

[Garry Anderson]

We have done a lot of work in this regard, and I think the Canadian Railway Museum has done a lot more. We've done specific work on interiors of certain cars with beautiful panelling, which is very fragile. We may be able to offer some advice, but we're a lot further away, so there are travel costs.

Montreal is nearer, and they may have some comments.