Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 25th, 2013

[Jeffrey Partrick]

It's possible. That's why if you look at our hierarchy of coaches and their levels of qualification the base is very large. I would say 50% of our coaches are what I would call purely at the grassroots level. When I say grassroots I mean they also work with grassroots level skaters. We do have coaches in our communities who are working with higher level competitive skaters. What tends to happen is yes, you tend to get some skaters who move away, and sometimes coaches move away as well. Generally speaking, it hasn't seemed to be an issue for us to retain coaches at the high levels. They tend to congregate and also develop a bit of a team approach, so two or three coaches will work together within a club to help develop skaters in a well-rounded way.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I thought it would be a little more difficult to retain kids in the sport if you didn't have entry level coaches with a lot of experience. I'm sure it's different for soccer. Obviously, you just go up the league.

[Dino Lopez]

That's the ideal model on the volunteer side, so house league and recreational. Generally mom or dad is helping, and that's where we're having a bit of an issue. They're applying lessons from hockey, ringette, basketball or whatever they played as a volunteer coach because there isn't really that embedded experience with soccer across Canada. It's growing now because we have so many kids playing. Most of the parents don't have that. On the volunteer side that's the way it goes, and we try to educate those parents and hopefully find those diamonds in the rough who understand the game and really help the players.

On the competitive side where we're starting to pay coaches, where we might have high level volunteer coaches, generally in the past the model used to be you would coach that team. You would have them from U10 to U17. Given the stages of development, that isn't always the best thing. You'll find the best European models, and just like school you specialize in an age group or two. You'll do U11 and U12, and the next coach will do U13 and U14. You specialize. The problem is there are not enough qualified coaches who can deliver on a curriculum at the highly competitive level. You find those coaches tend to want to jump around, or they want to cling to one team that's better than the other team. That's where we have a little difficulty.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I'm sorry, Mr. Atkin, I didn't mean to exclude you. I'm assuming individual figure skating is similar. Do you have a problem with retaining coaches at the entry level?

[Jamie Atkin]

Yes, absolutely. We have vast numbers of athletes at the entry level and a pretty good number of coaches. It's still a challenge at the early level.

As Dino was saying, as we move to the competitive level, that's where we have challenges moving them up. They need that higher level of experience. On the drop in percentage from our entry level coaches to our competitive level coaches, there are probably fewer than one in ten coaches who will move up and will pursue it up to that level, or they'll touch on it and you'll have them for six months to a year and then they'll disappear.

The challenge for us moving into that is definitely retention in those higher levels. Like figure skating, it's a highly technical sport, so it involves a great deal of training. The volunteer parent coach is a wonderful thing to have, but in our sport it's not a reality. Your pool of people who potentially could move into that is very, very small. As Dino said, there are those diamonds in the rough you will sometimes find within the parents. We sometimes have them involved in judging and officiating, but not in coaching, so the pool itself is quite small.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I have so many things to ask, but I have to be more specific right now.

This is a problem in my area. I get a lot of inquiries about those vulnerable sector checks. The resources here are very low. It's very problematic. It's very slow. We're losing volunteers. They're frustrated. People who have similar names....

Granted, it's a necessary thing, but obviously, it's the resources, it seems to me. Are you finding problems with coaches? I don't know if you know the stories from the coaches at that level.

[Jeffrey Partrick]

We've made it mandatory for all our coaches, so all our coaches in our organization who are Skate Canada members must have a police clearance check. We've had issue with the vulnerable sector check, as I mentioned, because of now having restricted information. We were using a company called BackCheck, out of B.C., which was a third party supplier that was helping us organize that information, provide that information in a 24-hour turnaround sometimes. Now that we don't have that, it's very difficult.

We found that when we tried to implement that, we were getting completely inconsistent information. Literally, neighbouring towns would have police attachments with completely different forms, completely different information on the form. It was very difficult to decipher, very difficult to discern what, in fact, the information was and what we should be doing with it.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Lopez.

[Dino Lopez]

We also have a policy around a vulnerable sector check. Up until last year I would say it was a poorly executed policy. We found that not many people ended up getting them. We've put renewed effort into making sure that all our coaches have their police checks.

At our house league registration and when the coaches come to pick up their...it's called the coaches kickoff, we have the police there. They will subsidize it. You have to fill out the paperwork and then you'll get the vulnerability check and bring it back to us.

The problem with that is we do it. We pay for it, and then they don't bring it back in. We've been having a bit of an issue enforcing that across the board, particularly with 800 coaches. We're just one soccer club within a province.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Simms.

Next we have Mr. Richards for seven minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you, and thank you to all of you for being here. Jamie is joining us from my hometown of Airdrie by video conference. Thank you, Jamie.

I want to ask each of you some questions, if I can make that work and find the time here.

I'll start with you, Mr. Partrick, from Skate Canada. I understand you utilize the national coaching certification program for figure skating. It's something I'm a little familiar with from my time as a hockey coach when I was younger. I was wondering if you could comment. I did see in your presentation you have the two different streams. You have what you call the instruction stream, which would be similar to what Mr. Lopez is talking about with his recreational stream, and then the competitive stream, which would obviously be similar to his high-performance stream. That's fairly typical in most sports, I know.

Can you give us a sense as to what the differences are through the training program for those two different streams? I recall from my hockey days—I coached what you would call competitive teams; I simply had those at level 1. At that time it was viewed as a qualification you had to meet to be able to coach at the provincials. That was simply about all we were doing. We weren't really trying to develop ourselves as coaches, to be completely honest. I think that has changed over that period of time. We're talking about nearly 20 years ago when I coached, so things have changed a lot since then. Can you give me a sense as to the differences in the training program for those two different types of streams?

[Jeffrey Partrick]

Basically when you start in figure skating, you're starting more on the instruction side. The beginner context you see on that page is really where our entry level is for both our athletes, our skaters, and our coaches. Really in some ways, the instruction stream is where you begin. Then as you move up through some of those beginning levels, you decide whether or not you want to stay within the instruction stream or move over to the competition side. To some extent really, because of the way our club environments work, if you have competitors within your club, you might actually look like you're in the instruction stream but you've actually got competitive qualifications in terms of your coaching.

When you look into the details of what splits those two, specifically you're looking at the competency base component on the back end. This is in terms of what the coach has to do to demonstrate they have the ability and the expertise to work with athletes within a specific context. If they're working with recreational athletes, the markers of their competency are based on working with recreational athletes, similar to what it would be like if they were working with competitive athletes, but the markers are different. The level and the standard are different working with competitive athletes. Without getting into all the detail on that, that's generally how the split or the divide works. We don't have any difference in level of importance for those individuals because our instruction stream basically makes up the majority of our members.

We have roughly 180,000 members within our organization. Only 4,000 of them are actually deemed to be competitive skaters. Those are skaters who are moving through our system trying to vie for qualifying national championships. There are lots of competitions that are occurring, but in terms of those leaning towards our national championships, there are only about 3,000 to 4,000. A lot of our focus is on our instruction streams. That's why our coaches in many cases are working on both sides of that picture. It's really based on the nature of the athlete you have to work with and the competencies they have to show in order to do that.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you.

I'll go to you now, Jamie. I'm quite familiar with your club. Obviously I've been in the club and we've talked in the past. I'm aware that you also instruct and coach all sorts of skill levels of athlete or of kids from the very beginning, gymnastics to national champions, of course. I'd like to hear about your experiences at your club.

First of all, I'm not sure whether Gymnastics Canada or gymnastics is part of the national coaching certification program. Is there a different type of training program for gymnastics that's outside the NCCP?

[Jamie Atkin]

Ninety-nine per cent of what we do is through the NCCP. We have separate certifications for different types of gymnastics, artistic women's gymnastics, men's gymnastics, trampoline gymnastics, active start, which is for the pre-school ages from two to five years old. These are all different streams and different types of certification, but all are within the national coaching certification program. There is mentorship and clinics and things that are very common in all the highly technical sports on top of NCCP. But NCCP is our base. It's absolutely where it starts.

We pursue what's called foundations which is a level 1. Basically it's the equivalent of the level 1 that you took years ago, but now it's a little different. That's the level you have to attain in order to coach pre-school or low level recreational gymnastics participants. That takes anywhere from six months to a year for someone to complete. It involves three weekends, first aid, respect in sports, a number of different areas of pedagogy. If someone wants to pursue higher level recreational or competitive, they must pursue level 2 certification and even level 3, which is where athletes are attempting to compete at a national championships level, and level 4, which is where high-performance athletes are looking to compete for Canada around the world.

It's like a martial arts belt system. There are a zillion level 1 certified coaches and then it drops enormously to level 2, and then even lower at levels 3 and 4. In trampoline gymnastics, there are fewer than 10 level 4 certified coaches in the country. The numbers are very small as you get higher in those levels.

Gymnastics is a bit different from soccer and figure skating, I believe. In a competitive stream an athlete might be a young athlete who is doing a low level technical skill but is actually pursuing competitive gymnastics, who might be training side by side with a recreational participant of similar age doing largely similar skills but who is on a different path. That competitive stream typically will have coaches who might be level 3 or 4 certified, even though they're working with young athletes, whereas we might have recreational participants who are older and may be doing slightly more advanced skills with coaches who are level 1 and level 2 certified. It's a streamed approach.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

Finally, for this hour, we'll have Mr. Cash, and we're into a five-minute round.

Mr. Cash, for five minutes.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm interested in the coming together of the issues around coaching and how that connects to the general participation of young people in sport. According to the “Evaluation of Sport Canada Programs”, published in May 2011:

The continued need to encourage and facilitate participation of all Canadians in sport is demonstrated by the declining general sport participation rates and fitness levels of Canadian children and youth.

Of course, this is something that is of great concern to policy-makers here in Ottawa and generally to Canadians across the board.

What can the federal government do to remedy this situation? As coaches, do you feel you're getting the support you need from the federal government with respect to this mission to increase sport participation among Canadians?

I'm just going to throw that open to all three of you.

[Jeffrey Partrick]

I think there can always be more done in this area. When you look at the number of our population who are becoming increasingly more sedentary, and when you look at our health care costs, which continue to increase, a lot of this can be attributed to the general level of physical activity within our society.

I attended the Canadian Sport for Life conference in the last couple of weeks, and it really renewed my opinion that we need to do more to encourage a general level of physical activity in this country. If we have a very strong base of coaches, whether they be volunteer, based on whichever sport it is, or professional paid coaches, those are the individuals who sculpt and create that experience for that young participant, regardless of what their goals are. A coach can turn that off so quickly and can stop that skill development and enjoyment of participating in a physical activity. It's incredibly important that more support be given to becoming active, to encouraging coaching, and to encouraging and supporting coach development. They all go hand in hand and they are all vitally important.

[Jamie Atkin]

I couldn't agree more with everything that was said about encouraging coaching and encouraging participation in coaching.

We need to create heroes for young people, not just Olympic medallists, but people who do anything at a high level that is based on fitness, health, positive action, and positive energy. Professional sport has a role to play in that, but amateur sport and the huge variety within amateur sport that can appeal to so many different kids in different families in different approaches.... We want to try to promote the concept of participation in sport and heroes within sport of all different kinds as being a very worthy and worthwhile endeavour. That's partly through ParticipAction-type commercials and nudges towards the media to pay attention to heroes who are possibly less reality TV role models and more healthy people who have pursued something with passion and energy and have accomplished something great. That kind of focused interest in those kinds of things as a nation is what drives kids to wanting to participate.

[Dino Lopez]

I agree with both Jeffrey and Jamie. We have to have a celebration of sport. It really has to happen that way.

I think we can all remember that professor or teacher who inspired us to be better, and I think that's what coaching does. We've heard that a number of times. Players remember things you've said that you don't recall saying that have changed their lives. They become healthier individuals and better parents because of it, and I think the nation as a whole improves.

I also agree that we have a sedentary population. There are a lot of video games out there right now. Anytime we can celebrate something that's about activity and being outdoors, or indoors but celebrating activity and sharing in a community, it draws Canadians together.

For the government, there's the pull. Celebrate sport. Whether through ParticipAction or whatever, we should celebrate it and sing as loud as we can about it.

I'll go back once again to having centres of excellence, because that ends up being that guiding star that pulls everybody along. We were chatting about it. We plan on building something in Oakville, and we're hoping it's going to increase participation rates. In Oakville we have a higher number of participants in soccer per capita than anywhere in the country, and that's just because we've built a big program. I haven't done it, but the people before me have. The community itself buys in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Cash.

That ends our first hour. I want to thank each of the witnesses. You've been very helpful for the start of our study. With that, we will wrap up. Thank you for your participation.

We're going to suspend for a couple of minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

We will resume our hearings.

I understand Mr. Nantel has a notice of motion before we proceed with the rest of the meeting.

Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, that's very true.

I would like to propose a motion. I think all the committee members will gladly support it. It reads as follows:

That the committee congratulate our artists and creators, who have once again represented our country so well at the Academy Awards.

That was last night.

I hope to have the committee members' unanimous consent. That would be nice.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Does Mr. Nantel have unanimous consent for his motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

(Motion agreed to)