It's very true.
Evidence of meeting #53 for Canadian Heritage in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was coach.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #53 for Canadian Heritage in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was coach.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Anyway, thank you for coming.
A friend of mine I grew up with at the age of 12 picked up a badminton racket and very quickly was defeating kids three and four years older. There was this connection between him and the ability to play badminton that he naturally adapted to. He played it. He beat other kids. No one could really beat the guy and everybody wanted to be his partner. He was never recognized by someone who was a professional badminton coach. Would he have gone to the Olympics? I don't know, but he could have. He probably could have won a medal. But we lived in a rural area and there was nobody around that area.
I understand what you're saying about having a coach at a very early age sticking with individuals, whether it's a team or an individual. Where I come from, to make it to the big leagues.... We now have a female figure skater from a small town in Newfoundland, but she hasn't lived in Newfoundland for quite some time. She had to move away.
The question then becomes...in most of these places where I'm from, talent does not get recognized at the early level. How do you get around that?
I'll just add one quick point about the school system. Are phys. ed. teachers taught and do they have discussions about...? As a person who played professional soccer for so long, you have an eye for someone.
Coach Mackinnon obviously had an eye for you. He knew you had that talent.
Do phys. ed. teachers go through a process where they say, “If you see a kid who can kick a ball and has a natural ability, call this number?”
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
I got an 80% in soccer in grade 9 phys. ed. The next year I turned pro. So I'd say, no, teachers don't generally have an eye for that.
Again, you have to go back to lack of training for coaches at those key development stages. My daughter is 10. She plays house league soccer at the Oakville Soccer Club. I go and watch her every Saturday when I'm not broadcasting, and virtually every week I'm there watching the house league program I send Dino an e-mail saying, “You need to look at the number four kid on the orange under-nine team, because he's got something.”
There was an article printed in the New York Times recently about Ajax, the development academy in Holland. Ajax is famed as a developer of talent. They play obviously in Holland, and their academy system is arguably the best in the world. Barcelona certainly is making a push to be up there as well. The interesting quote from the coach was this: “I don't look at who scores the goals. I don't care about that. I look at how the players move. I look at the way they move at the ages of 8, 9, 10 to be able to tell if they have what it takes to go to a higher level.”
That comes from training and knowledge. Are you going to get that in a small town? Absolutely not. But what we need to put in place I think in every sport is a pathway. When you are living in Appin, Ontario, which is where I grew up, and playing coed house league soccer in Glencoe until the age of 10.... I had a father who recognized that I needed to move to a more competitive environment for my development as a soccer player, and I did that. I've seen countless players over the years get pigeonholed and not recognized, not identified.
Hockey certainly has a much more developed pathway than any other sport. Look at the list of players who are Canadian in the NHL and at how many of them come from some hick town in Saskatchewan that you've never heard of.
5:10 p.m.
A voice
[Inaudible--Editor]
5:10 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
No offence to anyone from Saskatchewan, but you see it all the time.
Can you develop into an NHL player in that environment? No. But the talent is there, and that talent knows that it needs to move to an environment where it can grow and develop.
5:10 p.m.
Exercise Physiologist, Canadian Sport Centre - Calgary, As an Individual
I want to build on this a little bit.
I think the big thing with the Saskatchewan background in hockey is ice time. They can go and hop on the rink and skate in a non-structured environment for hours and hours. If you go to a local rink at shinny time, when the kids can go play and there's no score being mentioned, the kids will do things with that puck that they would never do in a game, because it doesn't matter. There's no score. No one's going to get after them for trying this dipsy-doodle.
It's the same with the soccer ball. Throw the kids out on the field and let them play with a soccer ball and they'll do things with the soccer ball that they would never do in a game, because it doesn't matter.
That's where not keeping score at the lower ages is huge: because it doesn't matter. If you're just there to develop them as a soccer player, or as a swimmer, or as a hockey player, they will learn much better skills if there's no score and it really doesn't matter. If you watch tyke hockey, they just play for a minute and they come off. They score—yay!—and then they go back, and then they go again. They learn how to skate. They learn how to play with the puck.
Now all of a sudden it's time to keep score. Now it's time to make triple A and double A. That's where we run into problems.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
I brought up the school analogy because to me that seems to be the best avenue, especially now.
If my friend were at that age now, the coach could say, “You know, he's pretty good at this sport”. He could make a video, put it on YouTube and send it to a friend, or to somebody who has asked if you know of anybody who can play this sport.
I suspect, though, that sports like soccer could probably benefit greatly from that, because it's played everywhere, but—
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
What's the first thing that gets cut when the funds aren't there for education in school?
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
When I was growing up we had phys. ed. every day.
I hate telling “when I was a kid” stories because it makes me feel really old, but we had phys. ed. every day. I looked forward to that so much because that was my avenue to explore different things.
I'll go back to my earlier point. We've taken that away from kids. Shane made a point about kids trying things that they would never try. I've got my kids in skating lessons so that they can be taught by a professional coach how to skate properly, because I know it's going to be beneficial to them for the rest of their life. The other day I was watching my kids skate, and there were two kids no more than five years old in full hockey gear, with a net pushed up into the corner of the ice, just playing one on one. There was no coach, nothing; they were just playing. They were trying things and doing things. They'd obviously been taught by a hockey coach who knew what he was doing, but they were on their own, exploring that, trying things and just playing around.
You can learn so much in that environment as a child, because that self-guided learning is so important, but you do need to have somebody who puts you on the right path to begin with. If you want to be a hockey player and you step on the ice for your first practice with your new team and your coach is clinging to the boards because he can't skate, what is that coach going to teach you? What training has that coach had in how a five-, six-, or seven-year-old child learns?
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
Thank you, Chair. This is very interesting. We obviously have two gentlemen who are knowledgeable and passionate about sport.
If it makes you feel any better about kids not being able to run and kick a ball, which really shocked me, under this provincial government in Ontario, the principals in the Halton board of education won't let the teachers teach cursive writing. They're not teaching children to write with their hand anymore.
There are a lot of strange things going on in the school system.
I want to get back to something you said, Mr. Esau. You said we need degree programs in coaching. How would you do that?
5:15 p.m.
Exercise Physiologist, Canadian Sport Centre - Calgary, As an Individual
Instead of it being pedagogy or a biomechanics specialization or an exercise physiology specialization, it becomes a coaching specialization. You have a kinesiology degree or a physical education degree with a specialization in coaching.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
How do you practically make it...? The federal government is not in charge of post-secondary education; it's provincial. Do you persuade them? How do you communicate the need?
5:15 p.m.
Exercise Physiologist, Canadian Sport Centre - Calgary, As an Individual
I think you have to persuade them. I won't win any favouritism medals here, but I think the Coaching Association of Canada wields way too much power. Their 24-hour or 36-hour weekend learn to coach program isn't enough. You don't learn how to teach kids. You don't learn what is necessary. You learn the basic minimum.
I'm one of the facilitators for swimming at level 3. Do I teach them how to be better teachers? No. It's giving them the background, and then you have to go out. Swimming tends to be professionals. If you're not good at it, you don't keep a job.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
You said degree holders want to be paid well. It was you who said that, right?
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
I recently found out that World Cup soccer coaches can make up to $20 million a year. I don't know if that surprises anybody here, but I was shocked.
What does that mean in the Canadian context? We need coaching programs, degree programs, and when the students graduate from that degree program, they want to get a well-paid job. How much money would they—
5:20 p.m.
Exercise Physiologist, Canadian Sport Centre - Calgary, As an Individual
It depends on where you are.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
5:20 p.m.
Exercise Physiologist, Canadian Sport Centre - Calgary, As an Individual
In competitive swimming, and I know that fairly well, someone who is starting out as a grassroots-type coach will make $15 an hour. Someone who is at the provincial level will make $60,000 to $75,000 a year. Someone who's at the international level will make somewhere between $100,000 and $150,000 a year.
It's funny that Jason brought up the swim coach who can't swim, because the head Olympic swim coach last year didn't know how to swim when he first started as a coach. Twenty years later he's the head of our Olympic swim team.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
I want to ask Jason a question.
If you were in charge of national coaching, let's say there was this imaginary position and you could do whatever you wanted to do, you were going to make the decisions, what would you do to increase the number of coaches?
